WotC changes how D&D mini's are going to be sold.

[The Little Raven]

And do you live in a heavy gaming area?

I dunno. I guess. I don't pay attention, since I don't actively recruit from the local community, just my friends. I'm sure another San Diego resident would be better suited to determine whether we're a "heavy gaming area."

Area there so many stores around for gaming that Wal*mart has a reason to compete with them in order to get people into Wal*mart to spend money on other things?

I can think of two gaming stores in the city, Game Empire and Game Towne, compared with 6 Wal-Marts (one of which is a supercenter) within the area, three of which I know carry the 4e books.

Likewise those Wal*mart regions with heavy gaming related stores will likely have gaming materials in them.

Wal-Mart wouldn't pay attention to local gaming stores, since they wouldn't have access to their sales numbers. They'd pay attention to things like major book chains like Borders (the one in my city sells 4e as well), which helps indicate how successful they might be in selling the product.

Moral of the story: Don't make blanket statements about how something will never happen, when it has already been happening since June.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

They apparently voted with their wallets, which resulted in what, 16 series of randomized minis? And as for overpriced, you know that the per-mini price goes up when randomization goes down, right? Case in point, the new D&D minis.

Try addressing the arguments instead of spouting platitudes. They bought what was offered; had WotC offered random and non-randoms at differing price points, you would have some empirical evidence of what gamers wanted and what they were willing to pay. Given the substantial amount of secondary sales, I think it's pretty safe to say that there is a market for non-random that's being met, just not by WotC. Or only indirectly by WotC, actually.

The increase price of non-random on the secondary market isn't a function of individual sales being non-random, it's a function of the *supply* being random and artificially constrained. The price is high because the person selling it couldn't just order up a Donkey-Punching Frost Giant, he had to buy 30 boxes of random boosters before he got one. And the supply is further constrained by the source supplier deliberately limiting certain figures to create scarcity and increase the sales of unwanted minis.

The only thing random packaging does from a supply standpoint is reduce inventory of unpopular figures. But in this day and age, that's got to be relatively minor. Market research for this kind of thing is relatively easy, and there's already doing it; I doubt very seriously they decide what minis to make and which are rares is decided by picking names from a hat.

The cost per-mini is relatively fixed regardless of the distribution mechanism, although there is some marginal increase in packaging costs; the price is a reflection of market forces. The change from random to semi-random doesn't affect the production costs at all. The price increase is likely a combination of rising costs and a belief that the consumer is willing to pay more for the semi-randoms than the truly randoms.

 

[Fifth Element]

Try addressing the arguments instead of spouting platitudes.

Sir! Yes sir!

The cost per-mini is relatively fixed regardless of the distribution mechanism, although there is some marginal increase in packaging costs; the price is a reflection of market forces.

Not necessarily. With completely random distribution, you don't have to estimate what the demand is going to be for a particular mini, just the entire series of minis. The expected demand drives the production levels of each mini, and the production levels determine the cost of production.

You naturally have to be a bit more conservative when selling non-randomized minis, because you can more easily overshoot actual demand for a particular mini and wind up with unsold stock.

Being more conservative with some of the minis reduces the total number of minis produced, which reduces the number of minis over which you spread your fixed and semi-fixed costs, which increases the per-mini cost. This can explain why they will be charging more on a per-mini basis.

I can't say for sure if WotC will be producing less minis, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[justanobody]

I dunno. I guess. I don't pay attention, since I don't actively recruit from the local community, just my friends. I'm sure another San Diego resident would be better suited to determine whether we're a "heavy gaming area."

I think San Diego would have much diversity in entertainment, and like the areas mentioned by the previous poster are places that are widely heard of so would carry the latest trendy whatevers. Well known places need to so when people visit they can attract all sorts of sales from customers.

Again the blanket statement was made about Wal*mart carrying 4th edition. So I was responding to that. Wal*mart won't ever carry it in all locations. Borders more than likely will, as well Barnes & Noble, etc.

 

[Digital M@]

The price increase is a large percentage, but not a lot of money. Without getting political, the world banking community is in a lot of trouble and the amount of money companies can float each month is shrinking and it takes longer to get people to pay you. Therefore companies have to realize more margin for their products and or services.

IMO this will be good for the overall plastic mini market. It takes some of the profits off of the secondary market (who act like scalpers) and bring it to the manufacturer who is spending money for R&D, production, etc.

Companies like Reaper will be more successful, in bringing out their line as they will not have to be as worried about secondary market commons selling for $1 or less. I think this will bring us more diversity and better quality product in the long run.

 

[Vanuslux]

IMO this will be good for the overall plastic mini market. It takes some of the profits off of the secondary market (who act like scalpers) and bring it to the manufacturer who is spending money for R&D, production, etc.

Ummm...you can't exactly pirate minis...the secondary market isn't paying WotC any less for the minis it sells than the retail market is.

 

[El Mahdi]

I think San Diego would have much diversity in entertainment, and like the areas mentioned by the previous poster are places that are widely heard of so would carry the latest trendy whatevers. Well known places need to so when people visit they can attract all sorts of sales from customers. . .

Well, Grand Rapids, Orlando and Palm Beach, I'd agree that they are widely heard of. Valdosta, Georgia isn't. Valdosta only has a population of about 40,000+, with just a little over 100,000 in the entire county, with estimates of 25,000+ being military and retired military. Not exactly what I would call a hotbed of gamer saturation. It's also smack dab in the middle of the Bible-Belt. Also traditionally not a hotbed of gamer saturation.

By comparison, the Metro area of Grand Rapids has over 1.3 million. Also Grand Rapids isn't exactly a Wal*Mart city. They do have some, just a handfull I think, because Meijers is king (Grand Rapids is their hometown). Which I'm sure limits there warehouse space, as you mentioned, yet the minis are there (and I'd bet so are the books considering The Little Ravens experience). Grand Rapids has about 3 or 4 dedicated gaming/comics stores.

Up until about 3 years ago, Valdosta only had one Wal*Mart, and it wasn't a super center. They now have a supercenter but the other store is declining. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up closing it entirely (the new supercenter is only about 5 miles away). There are also no other competitors in Valdosta (no K-Mart, etc.), and yet they had the minis. I even used to buy my Pirates strategy card games there (and this was at the original store, not the new supercenter). The original store was well away from the interstate, negating it getting a lot of travel traffic (the new supercenter is right off of I-75). Also, Valdosta only has the one RPG store (and for a year or so didn't have any), and I'm pretty sure it's the only game store in the county (for RPGs anyways, there is a CCG/Comics store).

I'm not doubting that Wal*Marts near you don't carry it. I can't speak to that so I'll take your word, but for everywhere else I've been, your statement just doesn't hold up. An I'd be willing to bet others throughout the country could say the same as me.

Edit: Not saying that I've been everywhere (a sheer impossibility), but I've only just retired from the military, and I can say because of being in the military, I did travel around a bit. Now I'm not saying I went looking for DDM minis in every city I've gone to, but I've seen them in a lot of varied places. And not all of them metropolitan, gamer saturated areas.

 

[El Mahdi]

Ummm...you can't exactly pirate minis...the secondary market isn't paying WotC any less for the minis it sells than the retail market is.

Actually, not that this is the issue, but D&D minis have been pirated. I read a story just this last year how a Japanese (I think) company got a hold of some DDM masters (or DDM die masters, I can't remember exactly) and started pirating them. I believe they were being sold on E-Bay. They would get reported and shutdown, only to pop up again as a different user.

 

[Imaro]

How does this, as far as the monsters go, really change anything. I mean it's still random, and commons (and probably uncommons) will still be cheaper to purchase en masse from secondary sellers than trying to buy enough boosters (from the one mini you get to see) to get the type of numbers and variety you pretty much need for 4e. Though I guess the hero packs will certainly help as far as THE GREAT DRAGONBORN DROUGHT of 2008...

Not sure why you're laughing. Many of the same people who complained about random distribution also claimed that WotC never listens to what the market "really" wants.

The problem is it's coming so late. I will readily admit I was one of those who complained when DDM first went up in price, but now that I order from secondary stores...I just can't see paying these prices for what still amounts to random minis. In fact I think one of the reasosn DDM sales may be dying is that many roleplayers have collected enough minis that they buy very little now, or that many roleplayers who haven't went this route are actually looking for alternatives like counters, tokens,etc.

 

[Fifth Element]

In fact I think one of the reasosn DDM sales may be dying is that many roleplayers have collected enough minis that they buy very little now, or that many roleplayers who haven't went this route are actually looking for alternatives like counters, tokens,etc.

I agree that likely has something to do with it. Goodness knows I have enough minis to last me a lifetime, though I do keep buying them in smaller and smaller amounts.