-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Where 3E and 4E players stand in the great 3E disputes
- Thread starter thecasualoblivion
- Start date
TwinBahamut
First Post
1. Psionics: Good or Bad?
Mostly good, but has a few issues here and there in which it is poorly balanced (both too strong and too weak), and the flavor is a bit off.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
The best thing that ever happened by a long shot.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Very much so. It is both boring and useless. A one-two punch of suckiness.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
Based on all the analysis I have seen, and the existence of save or die moves, yes.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Rules as written.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
It is a mix. Optimization is fun, but it is more in the realm of "let us optimize this completely useless concept so it actually works pretty well alongside a non-optimized Tome of Battle character or Mystic Theurge".
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes!
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
When I was last playing seriously with the group that earned these responses, 4E hadn't even been announced, but I like 4E a lot and would much rather start up a new campaign with that than 3E.
Edit: I am surprised at how much some of these answers vary. I might already be able to claim that whether a person likes Eberron or Psionics has no direct correlation to their fondness for 4E.
Mostly good, but has a few issues here and there in which it is poorly balanced (both too strong and too weak), and the flavor is a bit off.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
The best thing that ever happened by a long shot.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Very much so. It is both boring and useless. A one-two punch of suckiness.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
Based on all the analysis I have seen, and the existence of save or die moves, yes.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Rules as written.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
It is a mix. Optimization is fun, but it is more in the realm of "let us optimize this completely useless concept so it actually works pretty well alongside a non-optimized Tome of Battle character or Mystic Theurge".
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes!
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
When I was last playing seriously with the group that earned these responses, 4E hadn't even been announced, but I like 4E a lot and would much rather start up a new campaign with that than 3E.
Edit: I am surprised at how much some of these answers vary. I might already be able to claim that whether a person likes Eberron or Psionics has no direct correlation to their fondness for 4E.
Last edited:
Creamsteak
Explorer
1. Psionics: Good or Bad?
Soulknife and Psychic Warrior are good. Not much of a fan of the others.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Something in between.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Something in between.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
At high levels, maybe overpowered, but mostly for me they became part of a game I no-longer enjoyed after 10th ish level.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Random set of houserules for each campaign. Always willing to break a couple rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
I've played with some optimizers, though never to the full extent, but mostly with non-optimizing groups.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
I guess more 3e. I feel a bit like I'm being forced into 4e for new games though, as I'm having trouble finding players for 3e.
Soulknife and Psychic Warrior are good. Not much of a fan of the others.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Something in between.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Something in between.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
At high levels, maybe overpowered, but mostly for me they became part of a game I no-longer enjoyed after 10th ish level.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Random set of houserules for each campaign. Always willing to break a couple rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
I've played with some optimizers, though never to the full extent, but mostly with non-optimizing groups.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
I guess more 3e. I feel a bit like I'm being forced into 4e for new games though, as I'm having trouble finding players for 3e.
EricNoah
Adventurer
I'm a 3.5 player currently. Note that all of my D&D experiences have heavily favored levels 1-10 of the game.
So here is the questionaire:
1. Psionics: Very good.
2. Tome of Battle: Don't know, haven't seen it, but from the little I know of it I would probably allow some of it in my game.
3. Fighter Sux: Kinda
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: No, and particularly not CoDzilla. At least at the levels I play and DM for.
5. Your 3E games: Mostly as written, with a heaping of house rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? Plays casually.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? No, but I have nothing against it.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions). 3.5 only (play in 2 groups, DM 1 group)
So here is the questionaire:
1. Psionics: Very good.
2. Tome of Battle: Don't know, haven't seen it, but from the little I know of it I would probably allow some of it in my game.
3. Fighter Sux: Kinda
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: No, and particularly not CoDzilla. At least at the levels I play and DM for.
5. Your 3E games: Mostly as written, with a heaping of house rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? Plays casually.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? No, but I have nothing against it.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions). 3.5 only (play in 2 groups, DM 1 group)
1. Psionics: Good or Bad?
Good Nice flavor and mechanics although it does need a setting that makes it appropriate.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Good, not great
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
No One of the most consistently effective classes at almost every level.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
No A little overpowered at certain levels, but since all players and classes bring something to the game everyone gets their time in the spotlight.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Houseruled to a certain extent by hardly in a dramatic way.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
Both Members of my groups run the full gamut.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes - Good setting with a unique flavor. Not everyone's favorite.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
3E -Playing 4E is still a forced choice rather than a consensus with my groups.
Good Nice flavor and mechanics although it does need a setting that makes it appropriate.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Good, not great
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
No One of the most consistently effective classes at almost every level.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
No A little overpowered at certain levels, but since all players and classes bring something to the game everyone gets their time in the spotlight.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Houseruled to a certain extent by hardly in a dramatic way.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
Both Members of my groups run the full gamut.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes - Good setting with a unique flavor. Not everyone's favorite.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
3E -Playing 4E is still a forced choice rather than a consensus with my groups.
Oni
First Post
1. Psionics: Good or Bad?
Rules are cool, not always digging the flavor of the fluff. Not a fan of phantasmal snot.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Never read it
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Really good at lower levels, I wish that manuevers had been taken to a little more of an extreme than the feat system allowed for at higher levels.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
I have never once played in a game where this has been a problem.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Pretty much as written, with the exception of one fellow I used to play with, most DM's I know don't feel inclined to spend time tweaking the rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
Don't really have a current group, but in the past pretty much everyone I've played with has been pretty casual. I myself more than most I've played with like for my character to work well, but I don't have much patience (or the desire) for coming up with something gamebreaking. I just want my character not to suck, some people I played with didn't even care about that as long as they seemed cool.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
I'm only doing PbP now, but it's all either 3.5e or Pathfinder. I wouldn't have a problem giving 4e a whirl though. I really do like 3.5e though.
hurm, if I were to add a question it would be. Splat books, good or bad?
Rules are cool, not always digging the flavor of the fluff. Not a fan of phantasmal snot.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened?
Never read it
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No?
Really good at lower levels, I wish that manuevers had been taken to a little more of an extreme than the feat system allowed for at higher levels.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no?
I have never once played in a game where this has been a problem.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion?
Pretty much as written, with the exception of one fellow I used to play with, most DM's I know don't feel inclined to spend time tweaking the rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually?
Don't really have a current group, but in the past pretty much everyone I've played with has been pretty casual. I myself more than most I've played with like for my character to work well, but I don't have much patience (or the desire) for coming up with something gamebreaking. I just want my character not to suck, some people I played with didn't even care about that as long as they seemed cool.
7. Eberron: Yes or No?
Yes
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions)
I'm only doing PbP now, but it's all either 3.5e or Pathfinder. I wouldn't have a problem giving 4e a whirl though. I really do like 3.5e though.
hurm, if I were to add a question it would be. Splat books, good or bad?
Dragonblade
Adventurer
1. Psionics were good. Better under 3.5 when they reworked them to avoid the multiple ability dependency issue.
2. BEST supplement for 3.5. Hands down, bar none. I probably would have quit playing 3.5 before 4e came out if it wasn't for this book.
3. Core PHB fighter? Yes, they suck. With ToB and other supplements such as PHB2 and Complete Warrior, they look a little better.
4. Low level casters were too weak, high level casters were too powerful. 4e rebalanced things nicely.
5. Lots of houserules. Removing randomness from HPs, removing level drain, etc. Basically fixing the same 3e flaws that 4e did.
6. Definitely optimizes.
7. Eberron was cool and we had many of the books, but we never played it. We played homebrew, Greyhawk, or Realms.
8. At this point, we play only 4e. We have zero house rules and the level of satisfaction and enjoyment from our gaming sessions by both players and DMs is overall much higher than it ever has been with any prior edition of D&D.
1. Psionics: Good or Bad? : Good. Use them in most games (but not so far in my Pathfinder game).
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? : Meh. Purchased it, didn't like it after reading, collects dust. Regretted spending the money.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? : No. Toughest players in my games are usually the fighters even into higher levels.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? No. Only time I ever saw clerics being overpowered was when I made the mistake of allowing a character from the Book of Exalted Deeds.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Some house-rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? : Mixed. Depends on the player.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Yes. Ran a long campaign there plus a few shorter games.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) : These days, Pathfinder (so more 3E than 4E).
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? : Meh. Purchased it, didn't like it after reading, collects dust. Regretted spending the money.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? : No. Toughest players in my games are usually the fighters even into higher levels.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? No. Only time I ever saw clerics being overpowered was when I made the mistake of allowing a character from the Book of Exalted Deeds.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Some house-rules.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? : Mixed. Depends on the player.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Yes. Ran a long campaign there plus a few shorter games.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) : These days, Pathfinder (so more 3E than 4E).
Drakona
First Post
1. Psionics: Good or Bad? Meh. The fluff was generally lame or genre inappropriate, but the mechanic was decent. They fit well with some monsters.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? By far the best thing that ever happened.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? Not after ToB it didn't.
In general, sadly, yes. It was constraining and dull to play, and had persistent effectiveness issues.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? Absolutely. If your Wizard or CoD player is at all clever and isn't looking to self-nerf, you've got a problem on your hands.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Houseruled to death. There's no other way to play.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? Some like to optimize, but we're mostly pretty casual. DM tends to reward the storytellers more than the optimizers, so that removes a lot of the incentive.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Uh . . . no. I don't like published settings in general.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) 4E. And I'm never going back.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? By far the best thing that ever happened.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? Not after ToB it didn't.
In general, sadly, yes. It was constraining and dull to play, and had persistent effectiveness issues. 4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? Absolutely. If your Wizard or CoD player is at all clever and isn't looking to self-nerf, you've got a problem on your hands.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Houseruled to death. There's no other way to play.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? Some like to optimize, but we're mostly pretty casual. DM tends to reward the storytellers more than the optimizers, so that removes a lot of the incentive.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Uh . . . no. I don't like published settings in general.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) 4E. And I'm never going back.
Vael
Legend
1. Psionics: Good or Bad? I like Psionics, but never got to play a Psionic class because my DMs were aggressively anti-Psionics. So I played Druids and Sorcerers. 
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? I really liked ToB, but like Psionics, I never got to really play with it.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? Until ToB, I had no real desire to play a melee class, I prefered spellcasters.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? I didn't play enough 3.5, especially into the higher levels, to see it happen.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Mostly RAW.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? My current group are mostly newcomers to RPGs and not big roleplayers in general, so while it is a casual game ... the focus is more combat and optimizing towards combat.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Big Yes, I cannot wait until the 4e Eberron books come out. I still wish I could still play my Changeling Sorcerer.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) 4e only, but I'd be willing to play 3.5, I just won't DM it.
2. Tome of Battle: The antichrist or best thing that ever happened? I really liked ToB, but like Psionics, I never got to really play with it.
3. Fighter Sux: Yes or No? Until ToB, I had no real desire to play a melee class, I prefered spellcasters.
4. Wizard and CoDzilla overpowered to the point of game disruption: yes or no? I didn't play enough 3.5, especially into the higher levels, to see it happen.
5. Your 3E games: Rules as written or houseruled into oblivion? Mostly RAW.
6. Does your group optimize, or play more casually? My current group are mostly newcomers to RPGs and not big roleplayers in general, so while it is a casual game ... the focus is more combat and optimizing towards combat.
7. Eberron: Yes or No? Big Yes, I cannot wait until the 4e Eberron books come out. I still wish I could still play my Changeling Sorcerer.
8. Do you currently play more 3E, or 4E?(this question is to see where each group falls in terms of the previous questions) 4e only, but I'd be willing to play 3.5, I just won't DM it.
Similar Threads
