I had similar thoughts about the barbarian. His "rush in and kill everyone" style actually requires a lot of tactical thinking. I'm not sure whether I think that's really cool (I like tactics) or a mismatch.
Barbarian Playtest Experiences
- Thread starter Ander00
- Start date
Ander00
First Post
Yesterday, I got to try out the barbarian some more. Or rather, a different barbarian. The party underwent some changes once again. Notably, the ranger was swapped out for a one-handed fighter, so the barbarian, now being the only striker, had to be a bit more aggressive than the previous one. Also, I received my new dice in the mail yesterday, and rolling things other than 2s, I actually managed to hit most of the time.
The party now consists of a human wizard, half-elf paladin, dwarven one-handed fighter, dragonborn inspiring warlord and the new warforged barbarian.
While he more closely resembles the typical barbarian now, I just cannot go completely with the flow, so I chose not to pick up any heavy armor proficiencies and to make Dexterity a secondary stat (it is currently tied with Constitution, but will be raised more), for an increase in Initiative, Reflex defense and AC (also, potentially going into Deadly Trickster later on, though I'd need to talk the DM into swapping one more attribute point then).
His feats so far (at level 8) are Fullblade Proficiency, Toughness, Improved Warforged Resolve, Warforged Tactics, and Powerful Charge. Next will be Student of the Sword, to get into Warforged Juggernaut. His at-will powers are Howling Strike and Pressing Strike, and for his other powers I basically just took the most damaging ones for now, though I might retrain one or two of those. His AC is very close to that of the wizard and far behind the paladin's and the fighter's.
Between the the temporary hit points he received from the half-elf's Sacred Flame, his Warforged Resolve, killing things, and the odd other source, he very often had a buffer to take the edge off of hits. So far, he can manage well enough without Recuperating Strike, and the first one to run out of healing surges will likely once again be the warlord (who has already received a Cure Serious Wounds from the wizard, but also has a Dwarven Scale in reserve).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first of the four combats he did well enough in the damage-dealing department. He landed his only critical hit of the evening when he made an Opportunity Attack against a quickling, and killed, I believe, 3 of the enemies. He did not get to use his Swift Charge power, as the enemies were usually too far away, and in one case, too close.
The second combat he cleared some minions with a Blade Sweep, and then once again could not charge the one that remained. He then followed the two defenders, who were fighting that night's elite soldier elsewhere. I hate those things, and this one had a -2 attack aura to boot, but the barbarian still managed to hit it fairly often (also thanks to the warlord and his Leaf on the Wind, which ensured everyone could flank in this cramped space).
The third combat consisted of some brutes and lurkers, as well as an artillery that zapped us from elsewhere through magical means. He again did some killing, failing once to use Swift Charge because he was too close, and a second time because the death throes of his latest victim blinded him (and the DM, who likes to err on the side of 'No' was stuck in a 3.5 mindset - back then charging had a clause about needing line of sight). In the end, he used his Swift Charge on one of the objects the artillery was shooting through.
The fourth combat was a solo controller, and it was about as tedious as expected. Our party makeup was decidedly bad for this one in particular, with four melee characters (who were tossed around and knocked down a lot) and a wizard. The barbarian did alright, all things considered, and in the end landed the killing blow, using a basic attack granted from his Bestial Hide.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, much more satisfying than the last session, though that isn't hard. His damage output was probably a little behind what the rogue would've done. Despite his shoddy AC, he could mostly stand at the front, or charge right into it, and live, quite comfortably as well. We do have two defenders now though. Also, none of the encounters were significantly over our level.
Both Swift Charge and Rampage once again did very little, which is somewhat disappointing. Due to landing quite a few killing blows, he was granted a tidy amount of temporary hit points from his Rageblood Vigor over the course of the session. The effects of the rages were not spectacular, but in the end they both added damage in the double digits to the barbarian's output for the encounter.
cheers
The party now consists of a human wizard, half-elf paladin, dwarven one-handed fighter, dragonborn inspiring warlord and the new warforged barbarian.
While he more closely resembles the typical barbarian now, I just cannot go completely with the flow, so I chose not to pick up any heavy armor proficiencies and to make Dexterity a secondary stat (it is currently tied with Constitution, but will be raised more), for an increase in Initiative, Reflex defense and AC (also, potentially going into Deadly Trickster later on, though I'd need to talk the DM into swapping one more attribute point then).
His feats so far (at level 8) are Fullblade Proficiency, Toughness, Improved Warforged Resolve, Warforged Tactics, and Powerful Charge. Next will be Student of the Sword, to get into Warforged Juggernaut. His at-will powers are Howling Strike and Pressing Strike, and for his other powers I basically just took the most damaging ones for now, though I might retrain one or two of those. His AC is very close to that of the wizard and far behind the paladin's and the fighter's.
Between the the temporary hit points he received from the half-elf's Sacred Flame, his Warforged Resolve, killing things, and the odd other source, he very often had a buffer to take the edge off of hits. So far, he can manage well enough without Recuperating Strike, and the first one to run out of healing surges will likely once again be the warlord (who has already received a Cure Serious Wounds from the wizard, but also has a Dwarven Scale in reserve).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The first of the four combats he did well enough in the damage-dealing department. He landed his only critical hit of the evening when he made an Opportunity Attack against a quickling, and killed, I believe, 3 of the enemies. He did not get to use his Swift Charge power, as the enemies were usually too far away, and in one case, too close.
The second combat he cleared some minions with a Blade Sweep, and then once again could not charge the one that remained. He then followed the two defenders, who were fighting that night's elite soldier elsewhere. I hate those things, and this one had a -2 attack aura to boot, but the barbarian still managed to hit it fairly often (also thanks to the warlord and his Leaf on the Wind, which ensured everyone could flank in this cramped space).
The third combat consisted of some brutes and lurkers, as well as an artillery that zapped us from elsewhere through magical means. He again did some killing, failing once to use Swift Charge because he was too close, and a second time because the death throes of his latest victim blinded him (and the DM, who likes to err on the side of 'No' was stuck in a 3.5 mindset - back then charging had a clause about needing line of sight). In the end, he used his Swift Charge on one of the objects the artillery was shooting through.
The fourth combat was a solo controller, and it was about as tedious as expected. Our party makeup was decidedly bad for this one in particular, with four melee characters (who were tossed around and knocked down a lot) and a wizard. The barbarian did alright, all things considered, and in the end landed the killing blow, using a basic attack granted from his Bestial Hide.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall, much more satisfying than the last session, though that isn't hard. His damage output was probably a little behind what the rogue would've done. Despite his shoddy AC, he could mostly stand at the front, or charge right into it, and live, quite comfortably as well. We do have two defenders now though. Also, none of the encounters were significantly over our level.
Both Swift Charge and Rampage once again did very little, which is somewhat disappointing. Due to landing quite a few killing blows, he was granted a tidy amount of temporary hit points from his Rageblood Vigor over the course of the session. The effects of the rages were not spectacular, but in the end they both added damage in the double digits to the barbarian's output for the encounter.
cheers
Phaezen
Adventurer
Possibly you could play it as natural cunning and instinct, rather than cold tactical thinking?
Phaezen
Orcus Porkus
First Post
Improve Charging is the key
I played a 3rd level dwarf barbarian on Sunday. He's now 4th level (sheet below).
I too was overall pleased, but a bit disappointed since I didn't kill an enemy once, or landed a crit (although I did a lot of damage), and thus couldn't do rampage etc. I also got trapped because the monsters focussed on me as the most dangerous guy (good sign).
The bloodclaw weapon worked well because I had so many freshly added temp HP.
My lessons:
I will use great leap (utility level 2) to get out of trapped situations, in order to charge again. It seems that jumping over the heads of monsters is possible.
I will also use boots of adept charging (AV) which allow me to shift after the charge (which is huge since the rules don't allow any movement after a charge attack).
I'm planning to risk more OA's by breaking out and charging back in, in conjunction with the fighter who gets free attacks if I escape from a marked target.
We will occasionally adjust initiative so the warlord comes after me, and shifts me with wolfpack tactics if needed, which, in conjunction with the boots, give me the running start of 2 squares for the next charge, or commander's strike perhaps.
With the powerful charge feat I deal +2 damage, and I also plan to use bullrush +2 bonus in connection with girdle of the oxen (+1 square on the push) if there is a pit I can toss the enemy into, just for the fun of it.
Question about charging: Do I really need to move the whole distance in a straight line? I thought it's enough to cover the last 2 squares in a straight line.
I played a 3rd level dwarf barbarian on Sunday. He's now 4th level (sheet below).
I too was overall pleased, but a bit disappointed since I didn't kill an enemy once, or landed a crit (although I did a lot of damage), and thus couldn't do rampage etc. I also got trapped because the monsters focussed on me as the most dangerous guy (good sign).
The bloodclaw weapon worked well because I had so many freshly added temp HP.
My lessons:
I will use great leap (utility level 2) to get out of trapped situations, in order to charge again. It seems that jumping over the heads of monsters is possible.
I will also use boots of adept charging (AV) which allow me to shift after the charge (which is huge since the rules don't allow any movement after a charge attack).
I'm planning to risk more OA's by breaking out and charging back in, in conjunction with the fighter who gets free attacks if I escape from a marked target.
We will occasionally adjust initiative so the warlord comes after me, and shifts me with wolfpack tactics if needed, which, in conjunction with the boots, give me the running start of 2 squares for the next charge, or commander's strike perhaps.
With the powerful charge feat I deal +2 damage, and I also plan to use bullrush +2 bonus in connection with girdle of the oxen (+1 square on the push) if there is a pit I can toss the enemy into, just for the fun of it.
Question about charging: Do I really need to move the whole distance in a straight line? I thought it's enough to cover the last 2 squares in a straight line.
Last edited:
Ander00
First Post
The rules just say you must "move directly" (i.e. the minimum possible distance in squares), there isn't really a limitation to straight lines at any point.
cheers
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Right. Katar and Dagger are both light blades, but the Rogue Weapon talent applies to Dagger specifically, not to light blades in general.
-Hyp.
allofyouandyou
First Post
Hey guys, 1st post at enworld/hi/all that.
Agreeing about that MM playtests not being accurate, two things I'd like to point out.
I hastily built my friend a Minotaur Barbarian to jump into our 12th level adventure. Certainly not optimized (18/14 array.) He wanted to be fast, so he got fleet-footed and fast runner. Oversized executioner's axe is 2D6 Brutal 2! Make it a +3 Vanguard, which is level appropriate. Weapon Focus+2, So howling strike deals, at 12th,
2D6+2D6+D8+11.
As a result, he was out damaging striker encounters on his 9-11 square at-will charge. Beastly.
The second tidbit, which I'm sure lots of people noticed really quickly:
Warforged with the playtest barb PP is conscious, stable, and fighting until negative bloodied once per day (Deathless Frenzy). Considering the huge HP totals, having an effective extra 1/2 total hp and the ability to heal to 0+ from any healing (making even a crappy potion effectively heal 40-ish HP?) ....and with Warforged bonuses to saves,
A warforged paladin lightly multiclassed into barb, however it becomes available, for the (pretty awful) Frenzied Beserker PP...
Agreeing about that MM playtests not being accurate, two things I'd like to point out.
I hastily built my friend a Minotaur Barbarian to jump into our 12th level adventure. Certainly not optimized (18/14 array.) He wanted to be fast, so he got fleet-footed and fast runner. Oversized executioner's axe is 2D6 Brutal 2! Make it a +3 Vanguard, which is level appropriate. Weapon Focus+2, So howling strike deals, at 12th,
2D6+2D6+D8+11.
As a result, he was out damaging striker encounters on his 9-11 square at-will charge. Beastly.
The second tidbit, which I'm sure lots of people noticed really quickly:
Warforged with the playtest barb PP is conscious, stable, and fighting until negative bloodied once per day (Deathless Frenzy). Considering the huge HP totals, having an effective extra 1/2 total hp and the ability to heal to 0+ from any healing (making even a crappy potion effectively heal 40-ish HP?) ....and with Warforged bonuses to saves,
A warforged paladin lightly multiclassed into barb, however it becomes available, for the (pretty awful) Frenzied Beserker PP...
Where is this tidbit of information found? I couldn't find it in the Players Handbook.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I suspect Rechan is confusing the Katar with the Kukri from Adventurer's Vault: "A rogue proficient with the kukri can treat it as a dagger for the purpose of the Rogue Weapon Talent class feature." But the Kukri has only a +2 proficiency bonus, so with the Dagger the rogue is at +4/1d4, with the Katar at +3/1d6, and with the Kukri +3/1d6.
The Rogue with the Kukri is trading a point of attack bonus and a feat for a higher damage die and Brutal 1.
-Hyp.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, the confusion could also be due to a katar being, by definition, a punching dagger.
Doesn't mean it is actually a dagger, though.
Doesn't mean it is actually a dagger, though.
Similar Threads
