Who got Psionics in my Dnd?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some other fantasy worlds that had psionics of some kind:

1) Elfquest- nearly every "magic" the Pini's elves do more strongly resembles what we call psionics than traditional fantasy magic.

2) Lankhmar/Nehwon- while most of the magic in the classic Fritz Lieber stories is "true" magic, Seelba and Ningauble have abilities that could be considered psionic.

3) Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion- the metaplot of these novels involve both magic and psionics, depending upon which world is examined.

 

[garyh]

I don't like _____ in my fantasy, and don't use _____ at all. But I understand that many do like _____, and therefore don't have an issue with _____ being included.

I like psionics, but I just wanted to say the this is a fine, fine philosophy, and these boards would be a happier place if more people shared it.

 

[justanobody]

Gary put them in 1st edition is all I know, but it was something I have always thrown out as it doesn't fit with the genre I want to play in. Anything psionics can do is already in place with magic via wizards and clerics.

To me it was like putting sour kraut in banana pudding. It might look more interesting but tastes like......

 

[IceFractal]

Who got arcane magic in my D&D? Seriously, which sounds more like classic fantasy to you?

"The mage focussed his will, reached forth, and clouded the minds of the enemies."

"The mage took out some bat guano, waved his hands, chanted, and threw balls of fire and lightning at the enemies."

The only setting in which D&D-style arcane spellcasting could be considered "more fantasy-oriented" than psionics, is D&D itself. Sure, many of the psionic powers have non-typical names, but who actually uses the names in-game? Unless you're playing an Order of the Stick themed game, Wizards don't go around shouting "Chain Lightning!".

 

[justanobody]

Who got arcane magic in my D&D? Seriously, which sounds more like classic fantasy to you?

"The mage focussed his will, reached forth, and clouded the minds of the enemies."

"The mage took out some bat guano, waved his hands, chanted, and threw balls of fire and lightning at the enemies."

The only setting in which D&D-style arcane spellcasting could be considered "more fantasy-oriented" than psionics, is D&D itself. Sure, many of the psionic powers have non-typical names, but who actually uses the names in-game? Unless you're playing an Order of the Stick themed game, Wizards don't go around shouting "Chain Lightning!".

You have got to be kidding me? I am truly confused.

Since magic was the predecessor to science, they were using things they found to combine into new things and this was put forth into stories and such as magic by those who could not understand things such as gravity, There are accounts of many old cultures using things by shaman, etc for their magics that are now explained, like willow bark for headaches. Leeching, and many other things like it became medicine all from these older "majikcs".

So where is there any evidence that telekinesis has existed with any real proof?

Or is that why you say it is more fantasy because it is not known to the world today?

Not all magics take ingredients, but it is an early adaptation of the law of conservation of mass and energy.

Psionics is more akin to getting something for nothing, and there is little to no chance for balance in the system unless you take damage for using it, or become unconscious, etc.

So how does psionics work better for fantasy? Why isn't the world run only by psionicists since they can get something for nothing and control everyone?

They just violate the natural order and balance.

 

[Oni]

I just wanted to note that I don't actually have a problem with psionics, except maybe over use of crystals and phantasmal snot. Its currently flavoring though is kind of a wierd mix with straight fantasy which is why I ask who decided to stick them together in the first place.

 

[Fifth Element]

You have got to be kidding me?

The tone of threads can be improved if such phrases were avoided.

I think you've missed IceFractal's point. I believe the point is that in most general fantasy, the D&D-style wizard does not exist, and the D&D-style psionicist more closely resembles the general fantasy wizard. Though the point is certainly overstated in the post.

 

[justanobody]

The tone of threads can be improved if such phrases were avoided.

I think you've missed IceFractal's point. I believe the point is that in most general fantasy, the D&D-style wizard does not exist, and the D&D-style psionicist more closely resembles the general fantasy wizard. Though the point is certainly overstated in the post.

Thus why I put the part you omitted.

I am truly confused.

I still ask you, and Ice what is there to balance out the power of a psionicist that can just do things with their mind, and what kind of fantasy books/movies/whatever were you reading that have noone casting these other types of spells that require things outside of one's self and own body to power their metaphysical abilities?

Even mythology has these "spell components" through most cultures, so how could psionicists seem better suited.

Also please define "general fantasy". What I see has something much more closely related to a wizard than a psionicist.

So what exactly is giving the impression that psionics is closer to how magic works?

D&D was taken from, Tolkien and other like materials, mythology, so why should it not fit within those ideas but somewhere else?

So where exactly does "general fantasy" have psionics as the preferred form of magic implementation?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So where is there any evidence that telekinesis has existed with any real proof?

There are many mages of legend and modern fiction- Gandalf and Merlin, for example- who used telekinetic powers. Its something that isn't unique to psionics.

In fact, most common fictional psionic powers have some kind of analog in fictional magic powers.

Pyrokinesis? Fireballs.

Using TK to stop someone's heart? Finger of Death.

Levitate? Fly.

TK shield? Walls and shields of arcane energy.

Also please define "general fantasy". What I see has something much more closely related to a wizard than a psionicist.

So what exactly is giving the impression that psionics is closer to how magic works?

D&D was taken from, Tolkien and other like materials, mythology, so why should it not fit within those ideas but somewhere else?

1) For a pretty full discussion on the distinction between fantasy and sci-fi elements like psionics, check out this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/132875-genre-conventions-what-fantasy.html

2) Psionics (and Sorcerers) works more like traditional magic in that it is entirely unlike Vancian "fire and forget" magic that D&D Wizards use. A traditional mage could typically do whatever arcane stunt he knew as long as he had the power- mana, willpower, souls in a jar- to do so. This is something Psionic PCs, Warlocks, Sorcerers and the like all do better than the Wizard, and none does it better than the first 2. The psionic resource of power points iis mechanically distinguishable from mana only in terminology. In addition, the old idea of mana is nearly indistinguishable from the Force which is manipulated by mitichlorians (OH, give me a break, GL!)- the distinction is that the wizard directly manipulates mana, the jedi or sith manipulates the force by way of the mitichlorians.

3) Your source-list for D&D is woefully incomplete. In addition, it was shaped by many sci-fi sources, like Jack Vance's Dying Earth (from which we get the D&D magic system, IOUN stones, and other things), or the Eternal Champion cycle which uses both magic and science-fiction elements. Some of the critters not culled from mythology came from sci fi literature and movies. 1Ed D&D had psionics, robots, blasters starships, and even a fantasy take on mecha.

 

[justanobody]

<space condensed>

For a full discussion on the distinction between fantasy and sci-fi elements like psionics, check out this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/132875-genre-conventions-what-fantasy.html

I am checking that thread out now. I still don't see where psionics need to be anything really than a specialist wizard. Oh goodness at the MTHAC0, MDAC, etc that has been in psionics over the years.

Psionics seem best fitted to cantrips and at-wills now in 4th for what they can do, and the bigger effects with normal magic that may require components, that I don't even think exist in 4th without insertion. So technically those wanting psionics already have it in 4th edition right?