So...How are Sales of 4E Product?

[Derren]

You should really have read the thread and links. The amazon bestseller list is based on most of 2008, from January till October, and based on number of customer orders. Hows that not a strong indication of awesome sales?

Or maybe you are one of those that claim that WotC bribed both Amazon.com and the New York Times to be creative with the numbers?

You aren't by chance a rabid 4E fanboy?
I never disputed that 4E sells good, I just said that amazon sales rank doesn't give any indication of how many books are sold.

Being Number 2 on the Amazon sales rank in the week/month a new Harry Potter book was published means something different than being Number 2 when the Number 1 is Business Mathematics extra complex edition.
A place in the anual bestseller list is a better indication if something sells well or not, but it still doesn't enable you to compare it with another product which was not sold at the same time.

Also if you had read all the links you would had realized that not only the anual amazon bestseller list was mentioned. My commend was mainly aimed at the trendrr graphs.

I'd be surprised if anyone at the shareholders' meeting even knew the answer to the question, and even more surprised if they answered the question. WOTC is such a small part of HAS that it barely rates a line in the 10k.

But wouldn't you as shareholder have the right to access this information?

 

[Fifth Element]

But wouldn't you as shareholder have the right to access this information?

I doubt it. We're talking about very specific information here. It's not information they routinely prepare for shareholder consumption. And in order to form any basis for comparison, you'd need the 3E sales information as well. Companies are not in the habit of dredging up such information for individual shareholders. It takes time and effort that are better invested elsewhere. Shareholders don't get to make administrative decisions. That's what managers are for.

 

[Derren]

I doubt it. We're talking about very specific information here. It's not information they routinely prepare for shareholder consumption. And in order to form any basis for comparison, you'd need the 3E sales information as well. Companies are not in the habit of dredging up such information for individual shareholders. It takes time and effort that are better invested elsewhere. Shareholders don't get to make administrative decisions. That's what managers are for.

I don't think the information about the number of books printed/sold would be that hard to prepare. Even a win/loss statistic for WotC would do it as the information is somewhere in there.
You still can't compare it to 3E but that would at least be a better indication than the amazon sales rank.

But I am just speculating so who knows.

Edit: I searched a bit and the 10-Q SEC filling of Hasbro looked promising, but sadly it doesn't list the subsidiaries separately. I also don't know the finance sector good enough so I know what report I have to look for. Is someone else active in the stock market and has an idea what to look for?

 

[Jack99]

You aren't by chance a rabid 4E fanboy?
I never disputed that 4E sells good, I just said that amazon sales rank doesn't give any indication of how many books are sold.

Being Number 2 on the Amazon sales rank in the week/month a new Harry Potter book was published means something different than being Number 2 when the Number 1 is Business Mathematics extra complex edition.
A place in the anual bestseller list is a better indication if something sells well or not, but it still doesn't you enable you to compare it to another product which was not sold at the same time.

So, when your arguments suck and make no sense what so ever, throwing insults is your way out?

Just face it, 4e is a success. Have a cookie.

 

[Cadfan]

Evidence for future collapse of 4e: the third law of themodynamics. I think 4e must be viewed as failure in light of its inability to prevent the eventual heat death of the universe. Maybe they shouldn't've nerfed wizards...

Pssh. Wizards increase entropy, if they're doing it right. Before my last campaign session, the PCs had a specimen of localized order called, in the vernacular, a "castle." Now, post session, there is a pile of high-entropy rubble. The second law of thermodynamics has nothing on magical incendiaries.

 

[Fifth Element]

I don't think the information about the number of books printed/sold would be that hard to prepare.

Think again. By the time the request gets down the management chain, processed and then sent back up again, and then gets vetted by legal who might require a NDA to be signed by the shareholder before the release of the information, you can have a significant expense.

And since you'd only be one shareholder, is it fair for all the other shareholders to foot the bill for this request of yours? Would you be happy paying the cost of some other shareholder making a similar request about a particular Heroscape set, just because they'd really like to know how many untis have been sold?

Shareholders do not manage day-to-day affairs of large companies. That's what you pay managers for.

 

[Derren]

Think again. By the time the request gets down the management chain, processed and then sent back up again, and then gets vetted by legal who might require a NDA to be signed by the shareholder before the release of the information, you can have a significant expense.

And since you'd only be one shareholder, is it fair for all the other shareholders to foot the bill for this request of yours? Would you be happy paying the cost of some other shareholder making a similar request about a particular Heroscape set, just because they'd really like to know how many untis have been sold?

Shareholders do not manage day-to-day affairs of large companies. That's what you pay managers for.

Ok, but as I said, you don't need this specific information. A quarterly report of WotC would be a good start. This information has to be somewhere.
I am sure someone with a financial background would know where to look.

 

[Yair]

Evidence for future collapse of 4e: the third law of themodynamics. I think 4e must be viewed as failure in light of its inability to prevent the eventual heat death of the universe. Maybe they shouldn't've nerfed wizards...

[nitpick]The heat death of the universe would be caused by the second law of thermodynamics, as the universe achieves maximum entropy. The third law actually says that no system will reach zero temperature in finite time, which translates into delaying the ultimate heat death indefinitely - the third law means that the universe will forever approach, but never quite reach, the heat death.

We now return you to your normal broadcasting.[/nitpick]

 

[darjr]

You aren't by chance a rabid 4E fanboy?
I never disputed that 4E sells good, I just said that amazon sales rank doesn't give any indication of how many books are sold.

Funny. But back to the point, it was not the sales rank for the day. It was the listing of the top selling books for 2008 through October for Amazon. It IS proof that the gift set was the 25th most purchased book for Amazon in 2008. Purchased, most likely, by a lot of individual consumers. It does very much give 'some' indication of how many books were sold, a freaking lot of them.

 

[Derren]

It does very much give 'some' indication of how many books were sold, a freaking lot of them.

And now compare "a freaking lot" with "a big pile of" to see how much better 4E sells compared to 3E, please.