Sleep spell and a shout

[James McMurray]

Those trained in Heal know that shouting isn't the only course of action.

They add a kick in the jubblies to their shout.

 

[Tenniel]

They add a kick in the jubblies to their shout.

I was rather thinking recovery position and smelling salts, but that works too.

 

[avin]

Ok... I'd make damage to allow a saving throw too...

 

[Rafe]

Ok... I'd make damage to allow a saving throw too...

Remember that the Unconscious state renders you Helpless and you can thus use a Coup de Grace against a sleeping/unconscious opponent. That means you can use any attack power; a hit is an automatic crit; and, if you deal damage equal to their bloodied value or greater, they die. So they might not wake up, regardless. That said...

I think Caliban is right: The Sleep spell doesn't put you to sleep. It makes you unconscious (after the first failed save vs being slowed) and specifies that only making the save will wake the target. If it just made someone unconscious, it would not say "(save ends)."

My question is: If it fails its save (goes unconscious), then makes its save the next round, is it still slowed and thus needs to save? Technically, the spell lists two effects, almost like a disease track. I'd be inclined to say that it needs to save vs being unconscious and then, if successful, also needs to save vs being slowed. Yes/no?

 

[James McMurray]

My question is: If it fails its save (goes unconscious), then makes its save the next round, is it still slowed and thus needs to save? Technically, the spell lists two effects, almost like a disease track. I'd be inclined to say that it needs to save vs being unconscious and then, if successful, also needs to save vs being slowed. Yes/no?

Right, though you also makes saves against the slow effect while you're unconscious, so you might shake it off before you come to.

 

[Rafe]

Right, though you also makes saves against the slow effect while you're unconscious, so you might shake it off before you come to.

Right. Forgot that you can and do make saves against multiple effects, even those imposed by a single power/ability/attack. Thanks for that!

 

[Majushi]

wait!?!

You're still slowed if you wake up from the sleep?

 

[Rafe]

wait!?!

You're still slowed if you wake up from the sleep?

Yup. The first effect slows the person (save ends). Failing the first save for that puts them unconscious (save ends). Thus, there are two ongoing effects that need to be saved against.

 

[Vass]

I'm thinking that the intent of the Sleep spell is that if you fail the Slow save and drop unconscious and then succeed the save for the unconscious condition you end both.

It does kind of make sense to still be slowed after waking up, but using the power as is written probably implies that if you again fail a save AFTER waking up, you fall unconscious yet again - which is kinda cool but perhaps makes the spell too powerful for a lvl 1 Daily --and sleep is already powerful enough as it is, useful in all tiers of play.

EDIT: Oh, as for the main question, I'll agree with the rest: The Sleep spell is a supernatural sleep effect. It basically shuts down your brain, or you ability to function. Let's not forget that it even affects creatures that do not sleep normally like immortals and --if memory serves-- undead.

 

[Keenath]

It's my personal opinion that Sleep was meant to have the "damage awakens" clause on there, and that it lacks it because they removed "asleep" from the list of status conditions late in the dev cycle.

My main reason for this opinion (and house rule) is that both of the other examples of save-ends unconsciousness (the rogue's Knockout and Garrote Grip) have a damage-ends clause, and while I guess you can decide magic does anything you want, I don't think it's appropriate for a 1st level daily to be THAT much better than an off-role paragon level power.