WotC acknowledges 4th Edition Not for Everyone?

[justanobody]

Have you thought that - just maybe - if everyone seems to be using a word in a certain way, and you're not, that you might be in the wrong?

Maybe you're being a tad too literal? Or quibbling about the vagaries of language, when the actual thing being discussed is perfectly clear?

-O

Except for the fact that those people are wrong because they are misusing the word wherein the tiles may depict terrain, but are not terrain.

The tree printed on a tile is a depiction of terrain.

Go smoke that pipe upthread. See how far you get. I want to know how you get your combustible material into it for starters.

Define "chair" as if to someone who has never seen one.

 

[Obryn]

Except for the fact that those people are wrong because they are misusing the word wherein the tiles may depict terrain, but are not terrain.

The tree printed on a tile is a depiction of terrain.

Go smoke that pipe upthread. See how far you get. I want to know how you get your combustible material into it for starters.

Define "chair" as if to someone who has never seen one.

Do you think there's a single person posting on this thread who calls wilderness tiles "terrain" and actually believes they are real, honest-to-goodness terrain?

Or that a marketing blurb is somehow deceptive because it refers to "terrain" but the package doesn't contain actual hills and foliage?

You're making an overly pedantic point that has absolutely zero relevance to the discussion.

-O

 

[justanobody]

Do you think there's a single person posting on this thread who calls wilderness tiles "terrain" and actually believes they are real, honest-to-goodness terrain?

Or that a marketing blurb is somehow deceptive because it refers to "terrain" but the package doesn't contain actual hills and foliage?

You're making an overly pedantic point that has absolutely zero relevance to the discussion.

-O

My point is that gaming is more than just D&D. There is already an established industry usage of the word terrain. New gamers will not know the difference, and possibly get into arguments when they find out it means something else to a different game. I have already seen them with the keywords in 4th edition.

So don't mislabel things to confuse people just to sell something or purposefully mislabel it. They are tiles, please just call them that. Then when you discuss terrain you will be discussing the same thing with people.

If you just walk into a room of gamers and start talking about D&D and how you play it and don't define which edition you will run into a mes of confusion also.

Bob: I love how my fighter can use his "get over here" power and pull his opponent to him. (talking about 4th obviously)
Tom: (knows nothing of 4th and its powers) Aren't you talking about Mortal Kombat and the character Scorpion, not D&D?

Simple miscommunications are caused by bad naming conventions and lead to bigger problems, or by calling something the wrong thing.

Some poor new player walks into a hobby store wanting to buy the latest set of tiles as asks the clerk where the terrain is, and lead to a bunch of trees and buildings and foliage. Poor guy leaves without buying anything because he went looking for the wrong thing and the item he wanted was on the other side of the shelf.

That is why things have names to distinguish one thing from another....

So it doesn't matter that we know the difference, but the forums are likely to attract new users, and even those using the term here may carry it back to somewhere where someone else doesn't know the difference.

When they make D&D Mage Knight Dungeons Delve Minis, then those are more closely terrain, like the proposed treasure chests from the latest podcast, but they will still not be found in the average terrain section of a hobby store.

There is enough confusing terms in 4th for new players, lets keep the universal type accessories at least named properly so people can buy the right thing.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

My observations:

D&D is a game of imagination. If I want a 2d map print on a bar coaster to be a world of danger and excitement , in my mind it will be. If I want a Skittle to be an orc, an eraser to be a troll, and a paper clip to be a dragon, in my mind they will be. For a bunch of people who spend their leisure time pretending, you sure can be a literal lot. 2d, 3d, scale or not to scale who cares. Q) Is it fun? A) Yes. Good, go with that!

D&D 4e is not for everyone. Regardless of the D&D edition you play, if you are still playing, you are playing D&D. It says so right on the book.

Edition wars suck.

 

[Obryn]

My point is that gaming is more than just D&D. There is already an established industry usage of the word terrain. New gamers will not know the difference, and possibly get into arguments when they find out it means something else to a different game. I have already seen them with the keywords in 4th edition

....

There is enough confusing terms in 4th for new players, lets keep the universal type accessories at least named properly so people can buy the right thing.

I think your slippery slope is ... overstated. You're assuming that people don't interpret and process language.

While this may be the case for some disorders where people have problems with abstractions and communication, this is not the case for the vast majority of humanity.

Speaking of which, a flashbulb just went off in my head.

-O

 

[justanobody]

scale or not to scale who cares

Apparently many people over the years that have fought with miniature manufacturers to make to-scale products.

I mean should a kobold be put on a large DDM base? Why not, who cares right!

So what it takes up 20'x20' on a tile or map. it doesn't mean anything!

Just imagine the kobold is in one of those 4 squares when figuring out LOS and not really 15' tall, but only 2' even though it could pick its toes with the dragonborn paladin that is 6' tall.

Who cares about scale. I guess all those people that play wargames, and even the ones that created D&D, and all those people who have been building model trains before many of us were even born.

But they don't matter! They're stupid for being too serious about it all since its just a kids toy, and grown-ups shouldn't be playing with these toys or even making them.

That being the case why even have any grid lines on the tiles to begin with. Just imagine them there! Then you don't have to worry about selling the product to those silly few people not using inches and feet as their main forms of measurement...all 90% of the world of them.

 

[Treebore]

My observations:

D&D is a game of imagination. If I want a 2d map print on a bar coaster to be a world of danger and excitement , in my mind it will be. If I want a Skittle to be an orc, an eraser to be a troll, and a paper clip to be a dragon, in my mind they will be. For a bunch of people who spend their leisure time pretending, you sure can be a literal lot. 2d, 3d, scale or not to scale who cares. Q) Is it fun? A) Yes. Good, go with that!

D&D 4e is not for everyone. Regardless of the D&D edition you play, if you are still playing, you are playing D&D. It says so right on the book.

Edition wars suck.

It has amazed me for many years (over 20 years now) how people refuse to see the simple reality and instead create a complete fantasy out of it. Which is a great thing for the RPG industry.


I think its obvious that WOTC just wrote the obvious. The tiles are usable with any edition of D&D. Even 1E, since house ruling scale/movement is so easy to do.

Did they write that with the specific idea of admitting not everyone plays 4E? I am sure it is in their thoughts, somewhere. The MAIN reason is simply admitting obvious fact.

 

[JeffB]

My observations:

D&D is a game of imagination. If I want a 2d map print on a bar coaster to be a world of danger and excitement , in my mind it will be. If I want a Skittle to be an orc, an eraser to be a troll, and a paper clip to be a dragon, in my mind they will be. For a bunch of people who spend their leisure time pretending, you sure can be a literal lot. 2d, 3d, scale or not to scale who cares. Q) Is it fun? A) Yes. Good, go with that!

D&D 4e is not for everyone. Regardless of the D&D edition you play, if you are still playing, you are playing D&D. It says so right on the book.

Edition wars suck.

Please take your rational thought somewhere else Mr. Rouse- this is ENWorld for pete's sakes!

 

[Obryn]

Apparently many people over the years that have fought with miniature manufacturers to make to-scale products.

I mean should a kobold be put on a large DDM base? Why not, who cares right!

So what it takes up 20'x20' on a tile or map. it doesn't mean anything!

Just imagine the kobold is in one of those 4 squares when figuring out LOS and not really 15' tall, but only 2' even though it could pick its toes with the dragonborn paladin that is 6' tall.

Who cares about scale. I guess all those people that play wargames, and even the ones that created D&D, and all those people who have been building model trains before many of us were even born.

But they don't matter! They're stupid for being too serious about it all since its just a kids toy, and grown-ups shouldn't be playing with these toys or even making them.

That being the case why even have any grid lines on the tiles to begin with. Just imagine them there! Then you don't have to worry about selling the product to those silly few people not using inches and feet as their main forms of measurement...all 90% of the world of them.

Um...

Yeah, I got nothing.

-O

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Apparently many people over the years that have fought with miniature manufacturers to make to-scale products.

I mean should a kobold be put on a large DDM base? Why not, who cares right!

So what it takes up 20'x20' on a tile or map. it doesn't mean anything!

Just imagine the kobold is in one of those 4 squares when figuring out LOS and not really 15' tall, but only 2' even though it could pick its toes with the dragonborn paladin that is 6' tall.

Who cares about scale. I guess all those people that play wargames, and even the ones that created D&D, and all those people who have been building model trains before many of us were even born.

But they don't matter! They're stupid for being too serious about it all since its just a kids toy, and grown-ups shouldn't be playing with these toys or even making them.

That being the case why even have any grid lines on the tiles to begin with. Just imagine them there! Then you don't have to worry about selling the product to those silly few people not using inches and feet as their main forms of measurement...all 90% of the world of them.

We are not talking about putting a kobold on a 180mm base we are talking something relatively insignificant (difference between 28mm and 32mm scale) for a game like D&D. Considering all the scales out there I would say this problem is never going to get solved in the Hobby no matter how many people want nano-accuracy in their games. All about scales

Splitting hairs it hurts my head