Petrification

[Bayuer]

So i have this little problem. Medusa Archer and Stone-eye Basilisk have both petrification powers. Liitle diffrent in the description.

I'm hit with medusa gaze. Slowe -> failed save -> Not slowed -> Immobiliez. Now the basilisk attack me with his gaze.

1)Am I slowed now? Or I'm just in petrified status stairs so it have no effect on me?
2)What if I failed slowed save from basilisk and let say I'm not affected by medusa gase. In the rules it states that I'm now slowed and immoblized. Not like in medusa case. Should I use medusa gaze entry on that?

 

[DracoSuave]

Alright, so lookihg at both entries.

Medusa:
Slows(Save ends), fail: immobilized, not slowed (save ends), fail: petrified, not immobd (no save)

Basilisk:
Slows(Save ends), fail: immobilized (save ends), fail: petrified (no save)

Both gazes do almost the same thing. So there's only a few possibilities:

1) You're already petrified. Petrified includes immobilized, so doing so again gets superceded by the petrification. And slowed is redundant, but you'd technically track it. Once you failed that slowed throw tho, you'd become immobilized, and that'd be superceded by petrification because it has the longer duration.

2) You're either slowed by both, or immobilized by both at the same time. In this case, you compare the duration of both effects. (Save ends) is the same as (save ends) so it does not matter which one you use. Then you resolve -both- if you fail. Basilisk just applies a new condition, so you do that, but medusa removes the old condition as well. So, you do both; Apply the new condition for each and then remove the old condition. Because the new condition is the same for both, they get rolled into one effect with one save anew.

3) You're slowed by one and immobilized by the other. In this case you save against both at the end of your turn (they are not the same condition, after all). You choose the order in which you save against them:

3a) If you save against immobilized first, you can succeed against it, fail the slowed, and still be immobilized.

3b) If you save against slowed first, you can fail that roll, the new immobilized gets combined with the immobilized, and then if you save against that, you shrug off both conditions.

If the slow was from the basilisk, either way you're still slowed (save ends) but if the slow was from the medusa, in both cases you'd lose the slowed condition.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm hit with medusa gaze. Slowe -> failed save -> Not slowed -> Immobiliez. Now the basilisk attack me with his gaze.

I'm not sure that I follow you here, since Immobilised supercedes slow. Whether you have a movement rate of 2 or not doesn't matter if you can't move!

 

[Starglim]

I'm not sure that I follow you here, since Immobilised supercedes slow. Whether you have a movement rate of 2 or not doesn't matter if you can't move!

The text for the medusa's gaze is "First Failed Save: The target is immobilized instead of slowed (save ends)." So, as Bayeur said, the target ceases to be slowed and is immobilised.

However it's quite possible for a creature to be both slowed and immobilised. The slowed condition would have no obvious effect, but anything keyed to a slowed target would affect the creature.

What was the question again? OK, the basilisk's gaze is an unrelated effect and does nothing special to a target that is slowed or immobilised. It only changes when you fail a save against that specific effect. You would first be immobilised (by the medusa) and slowed (by the basilisk). In the next round, if you failed to save against the basilisk but saved against the medusa, the medusa's gaze effect would end, but you would be slowed and immobilised by the basilisk. If you failed another save against the basilisk, you would be petrified.

No, you should not use the medusa's gaze entry for the basilisk. You should use the basilisk entry as written.

 

[CapnZapp]

As I see it, the problem would have been if there was a situation where the basilisk slows you, then you fail the medusa save, lifting Slowed.

Would this then lift the Basilisk's Slowed as well?

(In this case, it doesn't matter because #1 you're getting Immobilized if you fail the Medusa save #2 right when you save against the Medusa, you need to save against the Basilisk too, making the point moot)

But let's say you're hit with two different, hypothetical, powers instead: the "Mudase" and the "Bisilask".

Mudase: Slowed (save ends), fail: weakened, not slowed (save ends).
Bisilask: Slowed until the end of Bisilask's next turn.

So, round 1: You're hit by the Bisilask, then the Medusa. Now its your turn. You attack and miss, then you start rolling saves.

Now, will failing the Mudase save free you from the Bisilask's Slowed?

Or is this example flawed too, because you don't track two Slowed conditions separately, you only use the one with the longer duration? (Btw, which one has the longest duration?).

 

[Plane Sailing]

The text for the medusa's gaze is "First Failed Save: The target is immobilized instead of slowed (save ends)." So, as Bayeur said, the target ceases to be slowed and is immobilised.

It looks to me as if this ('instead of slowed') was just explanatory text written for the medusa (but not for the basalisk). I wouldn't take it to mean anything more than the simple reading of it.

slowed -> immobilised -> petrified

Seems a fairly straightforward approach to use for all petrification stuff

 

[Starglim]

Seems a fairly straightforward approach to use for all petrification stuff

I'd agree that there's every reason to make them consistent. I favour standardising to the basilisk text as a house rule.

 

[Starglim]

edit: Might have to rethink this, just because it seems wrong that failing a save gives you an unintended benefit.


The effect with the longest duration is the one that ends last.

If you are slowed (save ends) and slowed until the end of the attacker's next turn, then you make your save, you are still slowed until the end of the attacker's next turn.

If you are slowed (save ends) and slowed until the end of the attacker's next turn, and fail your save, you are slowed throughout the attacker's turn and continue to be slowed until you succeed in a save.

This means that you should make a save at the end of your turn but before the attacker's turn, even though it won't stop you being slowed, to determine the duration of the (save ends) effect.

If a game effect ends the slowed condition, it ends every slowed condition that affects you. I'm not convinced that the medusa or mudase failed saves explicitly do that, though - probably they only cause you to be no longer slowed by that effect, but don't do anything special if you're also slowed for some other reason.

 

[Bayuer]

Are you sure about this durations? I've always played that if you are affected by some powers with diffrent durations you just pick one EoT-->Save Ends-->Sustain and don't wait what will be longer!