Hit Points & Healing Surges Finally Explained!

[Kzach]

I'm really hoping that the podcast goes some way towards changing people's mindset in regards to the hit point mechanic. I'm so tired of groups that think literally when it comes to hit points and can't seem to grasp the abstract nature of the mechanic.

The amount of times I've run games and described the combats using concepts like near misses, strained muscles, minor cuts or bruises, being winded, armour damage that hinders the character, etc. only to be mocked by players who can't seem to wrap their minds around an abstract concept is truly tiring.

How does it make more sense to survive multiple killing blows that would have your guts hanging out and your head lolling to one side as opposed to near misses and whatnot?

People just can't get past the terms 'hit point' and 'damage'. I really wish they'd rename them.

P.S. I love you, Mike *swoon*.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

People just can't get past the terms 'hit point' and 'damage'. I really wish they'd rename them.

As abstract as the mechanic is meant to be, "damage" is a fairly concrete term that carries lots of connotative baggage. I also think that for a player new to the system, it is sometimes difficult to work out/understand their character's condition and current health. Hit points have been trumped by healing surges and even more importantly failed death saving throws.
I think this has been a stumbling block in players accepting 4E, although in play, it does actually work fairly smoothly. Personally I would prefer a more concrete sytem rather than the abstract, but heh... such is the way of things.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Cadfan]

Paraphrased: "The poison dart RIPS RIGHT THROUGH YOUR EYE SOCKET! TAKE TWO DAMAGE!"

Cracked me up. I remember playing under DMs like that.

 

[underthumb]

I understand that hit points are made to be abstract, and that they can be conceptualized as something other than raw damage in many contexts. The problem is when the abstraction is strained, such as being bathed in a vat of acid. I mean literally submerging a character completely in acid. In that case, the acid takes much, much longer to kill higher HP characters, and there isn't much of an in-game explanation for what's happening that's particularly satisfying. "You're bathed in acid, but you're really high level! So...the net effect is that you're being dissolved slower. God knows why."

 

[Cadfan]

underthumb- Agreed, but those issues run up against problems even when you view "damage" as physical damage. Its not really logical that a level 20 wizard submerged in a vat of acid will dissolve slower than a level 5 fighter. Its acid, and they're made out of meat. They should just dissolve.

 

[joethelawyer]

underthumb- Agreed, but those issues run up against problems even when you view "damage" as physical damage. Its not really logical that a level 20 wizard submerged in a vat of acid will dissolve slower than a level 5 fighter. Its acid, and they're made out of meat. They should just dissolve.

its simple to get around stuff like that though. so simple its a non-issue. the acid takes away 10% of your hp every round, and in 10 rnds you're dead.

 

[kibbitz]

Well, if you are willing to do the math, you could always use % of max HP to determine damage, sorta like a reverse healing surge. This opens up a different can of worms though. A poke from a goblin dagger doing 10 damage hurts both the fighter and the wizard equally, but soaking them in acid does the fighter more damage than the wizard...

 

[underthumb]

underthumb- Agreed, but those issues run up against problems even when you view "damage" as physical damage. Its not really logical that a level 20 wizard submerged in a vat of acid will dissolve slower than a level 5 fighter. Its acid, and they're made out of meat. They should just dissolve.

Absolutely. I'm more of a fan of the GURPS system, where hit points represent actual physical damage and people's hit points are determined principally via their mass (as measured by strength). Some big bulky guy actually will take longer to dissolve (or at least a bit longer) than a scrawny guy.

But yeah, there are always ways around these problems, as the post after yours attests. I just feel like hit points in D&D are straining under the weight of being too many things. If we want them to be "luck" and "skill" and so forth in taking blows, why not just have an active defense mechanic? Or explicit luck points or whatever?

 

[Cadfan]

Because sometimes getting 80% of the way there quickly is more important than getting 90% of the way there slowly.

 

[Celebrim]

Some of us have understood that some portion of hit points represented abstract qualities like luck, destiny, and skill since reading the 1st edition DMG.

Fully understanding that doesn't necessarily make us happy with the direction of the game, so I think it unlikely that revealing to us things we already understand is likely to change our minds.