Hit Points & Healing Surges Finally Explained!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes. I hoped 4e would alleviate the problem not make it worse. They could have implemented Armor as damage reduction too. Armour or magic, depending on the class, could have replaced the extra hit points.

I am glad they didn't go there. I have played games that used armor as damage reduction. Unless we are assuming there is a hence unknown and revolutionary approach to that, this would make combat just bad. Warhammer 1E and 2E, The Dark Eye. I don't care about believability or simulation if it makes combat one-sided or boring.


(Though feel free to convince me by presenting a damage model that avoids stuff like "armor is king" or scenarios that threaten one party member are a guaranteed death for another party member, or everyone running around in the same type of armor)

 

[CleverNickName]

I doubt that *another* discourse over abstract hit points is going to change anyone's opinion of healing surges.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I doubt that *another* discourse over abstract hit points is going to change anyone's opinion of healing surges.

On EN World certainly not. Helpful to "newbies" it might be.

The first time I encountered hit points in D&D my thoughts were more along "that's videogamey" or "What an antiquated, unrealistic damage model. Shadowrun was so much better!" Well, playing it convinced me it's actually a pretty neat model, and reading the actual description describing it as an abstraction for skill, luck, divine favor etc. made me accept it even more. (Though I think the fact that it played well was more important overall )

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

This trope provides all the justification I need:

It's only a flesh wound!

Player characters in D&D can keep going even after grievous injuries because they are basically action heroes, so there's no point looking at it all through the lens of realism.

 

[lutecius]

I am glad they didn't go there. I have played games that used armor as damage reduction. Unless we are assuming there is a hence unknown and revolutionary approach to that, this would make combat just bad. Warhammer 1E and 2E, The Dark Eye. I don't care about believability or simulation if it makes combat one-sided or boring.

(Though feel free to convince me by presenting a damage model that avoids stuff like "armor is king" or scenarios that threaten one party member are a guaranteed death for another party member, or everyone running around in the same type of armor)

I don’t think WFRP armor is that bad, or the 3.5 UA variant (of course, the math could use some work as the system wasn’t designed to support it from the start)

What I was suggesting is a bit different, though. "Armor points" would actually replace the extra hit points (from class and level) added to natural hit points (actual injuries):
- classes and levels allow for heavier armors (more armor points instead of hp)
- armors deteriorate when they absorb damage (lose armor points)
- magic armors break the previous rule instead of just adding a bonus.
- when armor is not appropriate flavour-wise, go with mystic armor points (robe wizards and priests) or enhanced natural hp (beefy thong wearing barbarians)

Of course this is a rough idea but basically, it works just like hit points, except for healing (mending?) and AC would just be touch AC or reflex.

 

[lutecius]

This trope provides all the justification I need:

It's only a flesh wound!

Except when it's morale (warlord "healing" powers)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don’t think WFRP armor is that bad, or the 3.5 UA variant (of course, the math could use some work as the system wasn’t designed to support it from the start)

What I was suggesting is a bit different, though. "Armor points" would actually replace the extra hit points (from class and level) added to natural hit points (actual injuries):
- classes and levels allow for heavier armors (more armor points instead of hp)
- armors deteriorate when they absorb damage (lose armor points)
- magic armors break the previous rule instead of just adding a bonus.
- when armor is not appropriate flavour-wise, go with mystic armor points (robe wizards and priests) or enhanced natural hp (beefy thong wearing barbarians)

Of course this is a rough idea but basically, it works just like hit points, except for healing (mending?) and AC would just be touch AC or reflex.

Ah, I see, that would be a more combat simulation approach. Not the direction I would want my game to go.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Ah, I see, that would be a more combat simulation approach. Not the direction I would want my game to go.

So the "feel" of it would bother you?

 

[kibbitz]

I don’t think WFRP armor is that bad, or the 3.5 UA variant (of course, the math could use some work as the system wasn’t designed to support it from the start)

What I was suggesting is a bit different, though. "Armor points" would actually replace the extra hit points (from class and level) added to natural hit points (actual injuries):
- classes and levels allow for heavier armors (more armor points instead of hp)
- armors deteriorate when they absorb damage (lose armor points)
- magic armors break the previous rule instead of just adding a bonus.
- when armor is not appropriate flavour-wise, go with mystic armor points (robe wizards and priests) or enhanced natural hp (beefy thong wearing barbarians)

Of course this is a rough idea but basically, it works just like hit points, except for healing (mending?) and AC would just be touch AC or reflex.

Closest thing I've seen matching this is Palladium's armour system. Armour has SDC, and depending on how well the hit roll is, you either hit the armour or bypass it and hit the target directly. Damage done to armour decreases its SDC, and at zero, it's broken.

I'm not familiar with the Palladium system in terms of performance, so I can't tell you if it works out, but you're still going to do a fair bit of rebalancing which includes figuring out how much punishment your armours are going to be able to take. And for the enhanced natural HP, how does it differ from normal 'real wounds' HP?

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Except when it's morale (warlord "healing" powers)

Ah, you are right - the Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night speech. How could I forget?