Divine Mettle and Death Saves

[Carpe DM]

Question:

I presume Divine Mettle can be used to grant an ally an improved death save. If so, that's an interesting use of the power -- essentially a high-risk ranged heal on a downed party member. Possibly useful if the paladin is low on healing surges, or can't get clear from the fight to lay on hands.

Thoughts?

best,

Carpe

 

[Mort_Q]

My only thought is that, RAW, if the PC in the burst still fails their death save, they actually die faster if you grant them a free save on the Pal's turn.

I'd rule that free saves like this don't count toward the limit of three failed death saves before an extended rest kills you, but that's just me.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I think there is a clear distinction between making a saving throw (located on Page 279) and making a death saving throw (located on Page 295).

If they were the same thing, then a Cleric could exploit Channel Divinity: Sehanine’s Reversal. Since death is listed as a condition, if you make a successful save against death, you'd be able to use this feat and place the death condition on an enemy.

Trigger: You roll a natural 20 on a saving throw
Effect: Choose an enemy within range; that creature gains the condition you just saved against.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If they were the same thing, then a Cleric could exploit Channel Divinity: Sehanine’s Reversal. Since death is listed as a condition, if you make a successful save against death, you'd be able to use this feat and place the death condition on an enemy.

1. Death is not a condition; Dying is a condition.

2. A Death Saving Throw is not a save against the Dying Condition. You don't end up "dying (save ends)". Rather:
When you are dying, you need to make a saving throw at the end of your turn each round. The result of your saving throw determines how close you are to death.

The death saving throw is not a save against a condition; it is a saving throw that determines how close you are to death.

3. Note that the third result for a death saving throw is not 20, but rather "20 or higher", which implies that modifiers to saving throws apply.

4. Note that p295 (in the quote above, in fact) refers to this roll as a "saving throw", which argues against it being distinct from a "saving throw"...

-Hyp.

 

[PHGraves]

That (what Hypersmurf said), along with the WotC ruling which allows Human Perseverance to be used on death saving throws, pretty much shows the "death save" to be a "saving throw".

 

[1of3]

I'd rule that free saves like this don't count toward the limit of three failed death saves before an extended rest kills you, but that's just me.

If I may... Only a short rest is required to reset the death saving throws. (The book says "rest", which can be both a short rest and an extended rest.)

 

[Mort_Q]

If I may... Only a short rest is required to reset the death saving throws. (The book says "rest", which can be both a short rest and an extended rest.)

Ah... good... that's better than I remembered it... although the original point is still valid... free saves can make you die faster.

 

[Danceofmasks]

And what exactly is wrong with "medical treatment can make you die faster?"

 

[Black Knight Irios]

And what exactly is wrong with "medical treatment can make you die faster?"

Nothing, it is just sad...

 

[Mort_Q]

And what exactly is wrong with "medical treatment can make you die faster?"

It's not fun!?