Intelligent Blademaster with Javelin?

[Herschel]

I don't see it as cheating or bending at all. Neither does anyone in my group.

Fun for all!

It's like using the proficiency bonus of the sword when it is used as an implement.

Cheating for all.

Why a Swordmage would use anything but a sword is beyond me anyway. You don't gain any of the goodies by using anything but a sword. They have a little range and solid area built in anyway.

A javelin is not a blade, nor is it a sword. Thrown it is a ranged weapon, not a melee weapon. It's pretty cut-and-dried.

 

[Kordeth]

It's like using the proficiency bonus of the sword when it is used as an implement.

Cheating for all.

If it's generally considered rude to dismiss people's interpretations of the rules as a house rule, it's certainly rude to call them cheating. In this case, it's also inaccurate--Drudenfusz is talking about "allowing" the feat to work with a thrown javelin, suggesting he's the DM. Even if the feat is errata'd to take away ambiguity, if the DM allows it, it's not cheating.

Why a Swordmage would use anything but a sword is beyond me anyway. You don't gain any of the goodies by using anything but a sword. They have a little range and solid area built in anyway.

Technically they use light/heavy blades. There's at least one such weapon that isn't sword: the glaive.

A javelin is not a blade, nor is it a sword. Thrown it is a ranged weapon, not a melee weapon. It's pretty cut-and-dried.

Five pages of debate would seem to disagree with you regarding how cut-and-dried it is.

 

[Herschel]

If it's generally considered rude to dismiss people's interpretations of the rules as a house rule, it's certainly rude to call them cheating. In this case, it's also inaccurate--Drudenfusz is talking about "allowing" the feat to work with a thrown javelin, suggesting he's the DM. Even if the feat is errata'd to take away ambiguity, if the DM allows it, it's not cheating.

I should have chosen a better word. Tongue-in-cheek smart-alec doesn't come across in text. House rules are good, just state them as such.

Technically they use light/heavy blades. There's at least one such weapon that isn't sword: the glaive.

I thought of that after I wrote it, but some interpretations of glaive are akin to a sword. It's a bit gray like the khopesh.

Five pages of debate would seem to disagree with you regarding how cut-and-dried it is.

Trying to loophole a feat does not change the nature of the weapon. It's BLADEmaster. The Swordmages powers revolve around the use of said blades. The javelin is not a blade, so NO BONUS FOR YOU!

 

[Caliban]

Trying to loophole a feat does not change the nature of the weapon. It's BLADEmaster. The Swordmages powers revolve around the use of said blades. The javelin is not a blade, so NO BONUS FOR YOU!

Don't confuse the name of the feat with how the feat mechanics work. The feat may be named "Intelligent Blademaster", but allows you to use your Int with any melee weapon, not just swords.

I have a staff wizard who multi-classed into Swordmage and then took the Intelligent Blademaster feat, and he uses it with his staff all the time.

In this case, I don't think it was intended to be used with thrown weapons, but if that's the case they really should have said "basic melee attack" instead of "basic attack". Because "basic attack" is used elsewhere to mean "ranged basic attack or melee basic attack" (see the Bravura warlord and several warlord powers).

 

[Kordeth]

Trying to loophole a feat does not change the nature of the weapon. It's BLADEmaster. The Swordmages powers revolve around the use of said blades. The javelin is not a blade, so NO BONUS FOR YOU!

So, by that logic, my ranger can't use tiger's reflex because he isn't a tiger?

 

[Herschel]

*funky double-post*

 

[Herschel]

Don't confuse the name of the feat with how the feat mechanics work. The feat may be named "Intelligent Blademaster", but allows you to use your Int with any melee weapon, not just swords.

I have a staff wizard who multi-classed into Swordmage and then took the Intelligent Blademaster feat, and he uses it with his staff all the time.

This should also not be allowed. Here's why:

PHB (Under class-specific feats) : A Character who has taken a class-specific multiclas feat counts as a member of that class.......

FRPG (under Blade Initiate Multiclass Swordmage feat and the only one listed): ...Once per day, when you are wielding a blade....

Both of these show that when using a class-specific power, you are operating under the auspices of that class. The staff does not count for using the feat because you are using the swordmage power and abilities, not the wizard. As the PHB even says, you dabble, you don't change powers and the way they work.

Again, pretty cut-and-dry using the written word. I also wouldn't allow backstabbing with a ballista just because you multiclass in rogue.

As a staff mage, there are already benefits to using the staff as a wizard. Using the Swordmage Warding with the defensive staff powers would be a stacking issue. Class powers are essentially separate.

 

[Herschel]

So, by that logic, my ranger can't use tiger's reflex because he isn't a tiger?

Druid multi-class, helllooooooooo. Or Beastmaster.

 

[Caliban]

This should also not be allowed. Here's why:

PHB (Under class-specific feats) : A Character who has taken a class-specific multiclas feat counts as a member of that class.......

FRPG (under Blade Initiate Multiclass Swordmage feat and the only one listed): ...Once per day, when you are wielding a blade....

Both of these show that when using a class-specific power, you are operating under the auspices of that class. The staff does not count for using the feat because you are using the swordmage power and abilities, not the wizard. As the PHB even says, you dabble, you don't change powers and the way they work.

Again, pretty cut-and-dry using the written word. I also wouldn't allow backstabbing with a ballista just because you multiclass in rogue.

It's pretty cut-and-dried when you use sentence fragments that aren't part of the feat in question you mean. Sorry, that is not even close to supporting your position.

When I want to use Swordmage warding, I pull out a dagger. But Intelligent Blademaster works just fine with a staff. Intelligent Blademaster is not a swordmage power, it's a feat that works with any melee weapon, not just blades.

And for that matter, nothing stops a swordmage from using any melee weapon they want with most of their powers - they all have the Weapon keyword, but do not require you to actualy use a blade. (It's generally more effective to use a sword, but not required.)

If you think it should all be restricted to light and heavy blades due to flavor reasons, that's perfectly fine. But it is not actually restricted in that way in the actual class write up. It's part of the 4e theme: less hard and fast restrictions, but they do try to give you incentives to do things a certain way (swordmage warding gives you a big incentive to use only light/heavy blades, even though almost none of the other class powers requre it, for example.).

I've thought of doing a dwarven Swordmage who uses Axes (specfically the Khopesh because it is both a sword and an sxe) and a Heavy shield, but it haven't done it because of the number of feats it would take before it became effective.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Maybe I'm a little late, but I didn't think there was issue in dispute here.

On the subject of whether a thrown weapon is a melee weapon, lemme try another angle.

I have a cunning javelin.
Cunning weapon says "any melee", and javelin is melee, so that's all good.
When I inflict a condition (say, ongoing damage) with a ranged power with my javelin, does the cunning property apply?

'cos if it stops being a melee weapon, it'd stop being cunning.

Sry, I just like to type cunning.