Ema's RPG Sheet Website down...

[Dire Bare]

I just know as stated in my posts on the Wizards boards, that we went the route of actually trying to talk to WotC regarding what we planned on doing. And I am very sure in the knowing that they are not above the use of someone elses IP when they feel like it.

None of the examples of WotC stealing other's IP presented in this thread carry with them even the faintest shred of evidence. None.

The closest is the dice image from early promotional images of the D&D Game Table that were originally from Fantasy Grounds. And, as a prior poster noted, this was an honest mistake quickly fixed once Fantasy Grounds let WotC know of the violation.

If you truly do feel you have a case against WotC in regards to IP from HeroForge, I can understand if you can't go into further detail as it may become a legal matter if you so choose to pursue it.

But until actual, solid proof of WotC stealing IP surfaces . . . . I can only lump it all in with the tons of silly, unreasonable WotC hate that pervades D&D fansites.

From what you have posted in this thread, it seems that the D&D Character Builder may enjoy some parallel development to HeroForge. Some features of the Character Builder may even be inspired by features in HeroForge. But that would be a far cry from actual IP theft. If my company is developing an anti-virus software package, and we see a cool feature in a competitor's anti-virus package . . . . I'd come up with my own version of that very same feature to improve my own software package, that's not theft, it's healthy competition.

 

[Dire Bare]

Ok what about this neat Avatar I have. Last I checked that wasn't created by ENWorld but is a part of someone elses IP. Not that I am saying that I feel that is any violation but wouldn't this be an example of a Fan Site using something without permission? Unless of course they do have the right to use this art in some agreement somewhere. I mean there are alot of Avatar choices that look alot like WotC IP.

Now you're being silly (to put it kindly), and you know it. WotC would be well within their rights to contact ENWorld and ask for all pieces of WotC owned artwork to be removed . . . . but they haven't, and won't, because they are smart enough to realize this would do them no good, serve no real purpose, and would be hard to track across all the fansites that also use snippets of WotC artwork.

Ema used WotC IP in a similar way for years and WotC didn't do anything about it until now. Why now? Because Ema went beyond just using logos, artwork, and trade dress, he created a character generator that used complete text (the IP we are all arguing about) and directly competes with WotC's own products . . . the Character Builder AND the physical books the material was taken from.

Ema was not a villian, but he crossed a line that rightfully got his site shut down. You wonder what this means for other fans and companies thinking about supporting 4e? It's dead simple really. If you are charging for a product (whether you turn a profit in the end or not), follow the GSL and you'll be fine. If you are a fangroup wanting to put up a website full of tools, don't include the full text of WotC's IP and don't use the official logos. It boggles me how hard this is for some to see.

 

[dinelendarkstar]

...If my company is developing an anti-virus software package, and we see a cool feature in a competitor's anti-virus package . . . . I'd come up with my own version of that very same feature to improve my own software package, that's not theft, it's healthy competition.

Exactally healthy competition is a good thing for business. It makes the competitors have to keep progressing to the benefit of the consumer.So what is WotC's problem? It seems that they are afraid of that competition (IMO). And that is all it is, an opinion.

Or is this Competition ala Microsofts school of business? Not that I need to open that can but oh well.

 

[xechnao]

But until actual, solid proof of WotC stealing IP surfaces . . . . I can only lump it all in with the tons of silly, unreasonable WotC hate that pervades D&D fansites.

In a drama there is hate and there is love. And Wotc needs some drama. It keeps the fans interested. Do you love, hate, nothing...? What?

 

[dinelendarkstar]

In a drama there is hate and there is love. And Wotc needs some drama. It keeps the fans interested. Do you love, hate, nothing...? What?

I love playing D&D and love the work I do that revolves around it. I hate that it is a good possibility this work might be all for not.

I hate knowing that in the end it is the consumer that will suffer by not having options.

So goes the drama of the current state of roleplaying in D&D.

 

[xechnao]

Now you're being silly (to put it kindly), and you know it. WotC would be well within their rights to contact ENWorld and ask for all pieces of WotC owned artwork to be removed . . . . but they haven't, and won't, because they are smart enough to realize this would do them no good, serve no real purpose, and would be hard to track across all the fansites that also use snippets of WotC artwork.

No, he aint silly. It has been said here that one has to defend his copyright or may risk disputes about his rights if he knowingly allow use of his copyright to thirds. Why this isn't the case here? Arguments can come from both sides in a drama. Unless you admit even passionate loving fans can be a bit silly too

 

[mudbunny]

No, he aint silly. It has been said here that one has to defend his copyright or may risk disputes about his rights if he knowingly allow use of his copyright to thirds. Why this isn't the case here?

Because there is a big difference between IP infringement (as is the case with Ema's site) and "Hey, that's a good idea to have in a character builder!!"

If Heroforge can make a character builder that doesn't use any of the IP from WotC beyond what simple Copyright allows them to use, there is not a lot that WotC can do about it.

Note, not a lawyer

Arguments can come from both sides in a drama. Unless you admit even passionate loving fans can be a bit silly too

Silly is not a term that can only be applied to one side.

 

[Hussar]

Ok what about this neat Avatar I have. Last I checked that wasn't created by ENWorld but is a part of someone elses IP. Not that I am saying that I feel that is any violation but wouldn't this be an example of a Fan Site using something without permission? Unless of course they do have the right to use this art in some agreement somewhere. I mean there are alot of Avatar choices that look alot like WotC IP.

I would say your avatar most certainly violates IP.

And, yup, they could ask them to be taken down. Granted, it's not worth the money or the hassle, so it's pretty unlikely to happen, but, they would most certainly be within their rights to do so.

Now, if a situation arose where Morrus started charging for "premium avatars" and was using your image, would your opinion change?

 

[alleynbard]

That is why I refuse to go into any more detail about the subject of the aledged violation, but it is a good question none the less. If it were you and it was your work, what would you do? How would you feel?

Silly question and one I already answered. I would talk to my lawyer and see what my options are. I would not drag it out in a public forum and only give vague details to create a heightened sense of drama. If you can't provide details then what do you expect people to talk about?

Are you looking for the rallying cry to take legal action? If you have a problem, act professionally and take action.

Nothing about Ema's situation sends up any red flags as it pertains to your business. What he did was illegal, pure and simple. He admits as such. If you aren't doing anything illegal then you shouldn't have to worry. If you don't know if what you are doing is illegal then you need to talk to a lawyer, fast.

As far as I can tell, this is all pretty clear.

 

[xechnao]

Because there is a big difference between IP infringement (as is the case with Ema's site) and "Hey, that's a good idea to have in a character builder!!"

If Heroforge can make a character builder that doesn't use any of the IP from WotC beyond what simple Copyright allows them to use, there is not a lot that WotC can do about it.

Note, not a lawyer

Eh, the point was about the point of the avatars.
But nevermind, nothing serious.

Silly is not a term that can only be applied to one side.

hehe true.