D&D 4E 4e Constitution - what a waste of time !

[Istar]

Constitution isn't as strong as it once was.

It is no longer -absolutely necessary.- It is merely -very useful to have-.

In otherwords, exactly where it should be.

Yep

As a Brutal Rogue I will put Con at about 12 initially and not put any points towards it, I am just trolling to find if there is any strong reason to actually allocate points to it.

Seems to me that Strength is a lot more important for me as a second priority stat.

 

[Jack99]

Yep

As a Brutal Rogue I will put Con at about 12 initially and not put any points towards it, I am just trolling to find if there is any strong reason to actually allocate points to it.

Seems to me that Strength is a lot more important for me as a second priority stat.

Depending on your group, you might need durable. BS rogues are often hit a lot. (at least those in our campaigns often run out of surges)

 

[Mengu]

Depending on your group, you might need durable. BS rogues are often hit a lot. (at least those in our campaigns often run out of surges)

We've had the same experience. As a matter of fact, our rogue just grabbed Durable last level. Naturally, since then, she has not even come close to running out of surges.

Just keep in mind feats are a lot cheaper than stats, so if all you need out of Con is extra healing surges, Durable is certainly the better option.

 

[Skallgrim]

The other thing about CON is it is, like many of the attributes, wildly varying in value based on what you are playing. High STR is fairly useless for your wizard, and High CHA fairly useless for your Ranger. I'm playing a dwarf fighter (not even battlerager) focused on Hammers, and on holding up the foes. CON is wonderful for me. It gives me more HP and Surges, it gives me extra damage on several of my attacks. It is my second most useful score after STR (and I haven't gotten to a level to learn Hammer Rhythm or Dwarven Durability yet!).

I emphatically don't think CON is useless, but that, finally, it's about balanced in utility with most of the other stats.

 

[Nail]

If the party didn't use at least 4 healing surges from a fight (spread across all members), then it was probably too easy, and maybe shouldn't even have been worth (combat) XP or have allowed the PCs to trigger powers (like the bag of rats rule) as it probably wasn't a credible threat.

Wow. That's not a game I'd like to play in. You only get XP for a combat if everyone almost dies? Kinda negates PC tactics, eh?

In any event, saying "4 HS per combat" is a heck of a lot different than saying "PC use up all H.S. each combat", which you were saying up-thread. Hyperbole?

BTW: How do your PCs trigger all of their healing surges in just one combat? Do they each have 12-packs of healing potions? Inquiring PCs want to know.

... I am just trolling to find .....

Yeah.

Poor form, Istar. Poor form.

If you have a question, just ask. Don't resort to trolling.

 

[Istar]

Wow. That's not a game I'd like to play in. You only get XP for a combat if everyone almost dies? Kinda negates PC tactics, eh?

In any event, saying "4 HS per combat" is a heck of a lot different than saying "PC use up all H.S. each combat", which you were saying up-thread. Hyperbole?

BTW: How do your PCs trigger all of their healing surges in just one combat? Do they each have 12-packs of healing potions? Inquiring PCs want to know.


Yeah.

Poor form, Istar. Poor form.

If you have a question, just ask. Don't resort to trolling.

Well maybe "trolling" is too strong a word for it Nail.

But I have learnt a lot from this and will get "Durable" for sure.

Cheers

 

[Doctor Proctor]

It all depends on what you're building for. As a Dragonborn Fighter that uses Axes, I'll probably pump CON every level. I would like to get Scale Spec someday, but it pains me to think of the loss of those couple points of CON I'll have to forgo to meet the DEX requirements.

Every point of CON is an extra hitpoint, and every point of my CON mod is an extra hitpoint gained from a healing surge, and an extra surge. Additionally, there's a TON of attack that add my CON mod to my damage roll, and there's a lot of excellent feats like Deadly Axe and Axe Mastery that will require a decent CON. It also adds to my breath weapon damage, and if I go with the Inner Dragon PP it will be the hit stat for Dragon Blast....and you're saying it's not important?

So yeah, it just depends on your build, like most stats. An Archer Ranger probably doesn't need much more than a 10 or 12 in it, and maybe Toughness and/or Durability for extra added HP buffer, and he's good to go. Same with a Wizard. But other builds rely on it, or could use it as a good secondary stat. I mean, how useful is a Paladin for healing if he's got an 8 CON? He has to spend his own surges to heal others, of which he has very few of.

 

[chitzk0i]

Poor form, Istar. Poor form.

If you have a question, just ask. Don't resort to trolling.

I think it's worth pointing out that trolling can mean something else, (especially definition 3d). Istar may have been saying, "I thought I'd ask this and see what kind of responses I get". He might have also been engaging in another kind of trolling, but I felt I should say something.

 

[Stalker0]

I think con is now where it should be, a useful but not overbearing stat.

In 3e, I never played a character with less than 14 con. And my wizards always had 16 or more. It was too valuable.

In 4e, I wouldn't feel comfortable (yet) trying an 8 con, but a 10 or 12 con I feel is okay. But one day I'll pull out that sickly guy with an 8 con, and see if I live

 

[BobTheNob]

You get nothing for making this a high stat, does anyone bother.

You dont even get the modifier added to HP's each new level like ye old D&D

I love it when people compare 3.5 to 4.0 like they are compatible. Love it even more when they start a thread with a statement as if the point they are making is a foregone conclusion.

Healing Surges Healing Surges Healing Surges. I know they are a knew concept and 3.5 minds are still in the old Con=WAY too many hit points thinking, but the time has come to move on. Admitadly, when I first picked up the book and read the rules, my initial reaction was "WHAT THE!". Given a hundred re-reads and hour after hour of play, I have to say that 4th edition Hit point calc is simply the smarter, more mature, more intelligent sibling of 3.5

Constitution = Vigor for the day rather than just "I can take SOOO much damage". They are a master stroke on behalf of the designers and make Con into a vital statistic (Whom I believe was the cheif in the Asterix comics)