How to handle "shopping"?

[UngeheuerLich]

I would not let my players buy items they have never heard of. Maybe they can do knowledge skill checks to get an idea.

Magic shops are rare in 4e, but there can be weaponsmiths who are trained in arcana and ritual caster, who could maybe create items for the adventurers from scratch...

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

I don't know why nobody has brought this up yet, but Enchant Magic Item is a level 4 ritual which creates any magic item of the caster's level or lower, using residuum of value equal to the item's market price. Conveniently, the level 6 ritual Disenchant Magic Item converts an item into residuum with value 1/5th market price - exactly what the sell value is.

Your players don't need to buy magic items. They can make them. There's no financial difference.

 

[Lanefan]

I don't know why nobody has brought this up yet, but Enchant Magic Item is a level 4 ritual which creates any magic item of the caster's level or lower, using residuum of value equal to the item's market price. Conveniently, the level 6 ritual Disenchant Magic Item converts an item into residuum with value 1/5th market price - exactly what the sell value is.

Your players don't need to buy magic items. They can make them. There's no financial difference.

Assuming the DM allows item creation to work this way. I wouldn't, for the same reasons I didn't like how item creation was within the PC realm in 3e - the PCs should be out in the field *finding* items, not making them. (and when shopping in town, there's still no guarantee at all they'll get what they want - it just makes logical sense there'll be *some* stuff in town, being sold by the people who buy the party's spare stuff)

Lanefan

 

[Kzach]

In my homebrew I have a few basic assumptions for things like magical items. One of these is that there aren't any magical item stores. Magical items are simply too valuable to allow the populace free reign with them. Like anything, it's controlled by laws and the people who have the power.

One of the other assumptions is that only a very small percentage of the population are of PC level power and that part of the limitation is knowledge. Knowledge is power and power leads to domination. In other words, the nobles have all the knowledge and therefore all the power.

In turn, they want to keep that power so they don't pass on that knowledge to just anyone. And part of keeping that power is also controlling magical item distribution. So in other words, generally speaking, the nobility of any area will have a small stash of items for their own personal and discretionary use.

Since the PC's are more than likely from the nobility themselves (since they have to have gained their knowledge to be PC's in the first place) they generally understand that trading items for items or gold for items is a fairly standard practice. However, there are also political considerations so whether the family they are dealing with wishes to trade with them is another matter entirely.

For the most part, if the family they're trading with doesn't have the item, one of their household will or perhaps another household that has an inventory and needs a favour. This of course leads to more adventure so it's a nicely reciprocal system.

Of course, the above may not work in all settings

 

[Spatula]

I'm in the early phases of my first D&D 4e campaign, and my first campaign as DM since college, and my current batch of players are much more "serious" about D&D than any previous party. To try and keep them engaged, I've been making an effort to play out, either RP or mechanically, things I used to just gloss over. The next major milestone in my DM evolution will be when my players get to the big city with pockets full of gold pieces.

In previous campaigns I would just let me players tell me "I bought x, y, and z while everyone was sleeping", but it seems unrealistic to me that every little town or village would have everything for sale in the PHB and AV. On the other hand, handing the players inventory lists for every store in Brindol seems to go too far the other way. And what about magic items -- can I just assume any magic item the players can come up with can be made at "the magic item store"?

How can I make a more reasonable shopping experience without boring the crap out of the whole table? Or is it even worth the effort?

First, make sure your players actually want to play out shopping activities, and if so, how detailed do they want it. If it's very detailed, you might want to think about coming up with some simple haggling rules (like opposed Bluff or Diplomacy checks), or you can just wing that.

I wouldn't fret too much about each individual store's stock. Whatever the PCs want is probably available somewhere in a large enough town, unless they want mass quantities of it. And even then, someone will be willing to make it for them if they have the time & money to spend on it. Unusual items (superior weapons or specific magic items) might have to be crafted to order rather than being available off the shelf.

 

[xechnao]

I'm in the early phases of my first D&D 4e campaign, and my first campaign as DM since college, and my current batch of players are much more "serious" about D&D than any previous party. To try and keep them engaged, I've been making an effort to play out, either RP or mechanically, things I used to just gloss over. The next major milestone in my DM evolution will be when my players get to the big city with pockets full of gold pieces.

In previous campaigns I would just let me players tell me "I bought x, y, and z while everyone was sleeping", but it seems unrealistic to me that every little town or village would have everything for sale in the PHB and AV. On the other hand, handing the players inventory lists for every store in Brindol seems to go too far the other way. And what about magic items -- can I just assume any magic item the players can come up with can be made at "the magic item store"?

How can I make a more reasonable shopping experience without boring the crap out of the whole table? Or is it even worth the effort?

Charts are your friends. Make availability charts
Items should be rare, common etch based on location.
Also based on location there could be special items and most importantly price differences. Usually the locations that have the most availability are the most expensive ones.
Do not track money by piece by piece. Instead abstractly measure the level of wealth. When you go shopping you barter. Diplomacy is important too.
Do not track minutia.
For each half day spend on shopping in big locations you roll dice to see how well you did based on your priorities.
These could be:
Adventuring gear: cost 1 (checked)
Magic Weapon of high quality cost 5: (roll to see what weapon was found)
Specific Magic Quality -ie something versus undead: (roll for type of object found and then roll for its cost)

If players do not decide to buy, for each subsequent effort (another half day spend) they must re-roll but with a bonus. That is they cannot keep results from one effort to the next.

Of course to chart this out you need to do some work. But if you do it it will be for the whole campaign at your disposition. You may even ask someone to help you. SHARK that posts here is good at managing stuff like that but I do not know if he is available.

 

[Crothian]

How can I make a more reasonable shopping experience without boring the crap out of the whole table? Or is it even worth the effort?

All shopping for us is done in between sessions with DM's approval. We have our own message boards for the games so we handle it there. It saves us a lot of time at the gaming table.

 

[Thanee]

In 4E shopping availability is basically limited to how many gold you can 'transform' into ritual components, really.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Celebrim]

I hate 'magic shops'.

Generally, you can go to a craftsman, come back in 1d4 days and pick up something you wanted made.

Or, you can go to a merchantile put down more money and get it immediately. What's generally more important about finding a good merchant is finding one who offers honest prices for the things you want to sell. Generally, I play out the selling portion until such time as they actually settle on a relationship with a merchant, at which point it becomes redundant and I only play it out if there is something unusual in play.

If the town is big enough, it generally has an alchemist who has say 2d8 random potions available for sale, makes about 1 every week as his inventory changes, and will make more on commission up to about 1 a day. Major temples usually have a similar number of potions and scrolls available for sale to people in good standing with the temple. Occasionally, if the town is big enough to support it, there also will be some hedge mage or local wizard who is trying to make a buck and will have a similar inventory of arcane goods. In short, you can often pull quite a few potions and scrolls out of a community in short notice, but generally no magic items more valuable than that.

If the town is big enough to be a city, there will be some guy who deals in spell components, wierd curios, religious articles, archaelogical artifacts, rare maps, art items, and occassionaly magic items. He'll have 1d4 or so random usually minor magic items on hand, some of which he may not completely understand the function of. The guy is often wierd, frequently evil, generally disreputable, and with a clientelle that is downright dangerous.

In the bigger cities, about once a month, a specialized dealer in magic items will come through with about 2-5 magic items and there will be an invitation only auction to sell the items. If the PC's are important enough and rich enough, they'll recieve an invitation. It's a good way to start introducing factions to the players.

In the bigger cities (and occasionally in rural areas where you wouldn't expect it), there are usually major wizards of 6th level or higher who can make moderately powerful items. Generally however, they are quite busy with their own affairs and have no time for random mercenaries. To get in to see these luminaries requires developing a reputation, and then getting them to do something for you requires building a relationship with the person - which generally involves a minor quest. After that, they'll possible accept commissions to make individual items, which are usually ready a couple of days later.

Generally, for me, that's it. I expect the PC's to find most of their magic items, not go shopping for them. I don't really have to prepare lists of items on hand. I assume that if it isn't particularly valuable that its on hand, and that if it is (anything more valuable than an ordinary longsword or a suit of chain mail), then its not. My assumption is that it is a medieval economy, and anything valuable is made to order, not left setting on the shelf waiting for a customer. There isn't enough spare labor or money to waste on making random valuable items in the hopes of finding a customer.

 

[Rel]

My suggestion would be to handle this out of session via e-mail or messageboard group (we've got those here at ENW and it's great!). This doesn't mean that it need lack in flavor however.

Let's say you tell the group, "This town is well supplied with mundane essentials so you can find any non-magic items you wish to buy. Just use the Buy mode in the Character Builder and get what you want. For any magic items or ritual components let me know what you want and I'll let you know it is available."

So, in total, they send you a list that looks like this:

8 Healing Potions
+2 Dwarven Plate
+2 Holy Symbol of Battle
+2 Orb of Reversed Polarities
+2 Duelists Dagger
Ritual of Linked Portal
2,000 GP of Alchemical Reagents

Your reply might be something like this:

"You locate a smith who is the outfitter for the King's Guard and he knows the secret of fashioning Dwarven Plate. He tells you it'll take him a week to finish it because he promised the Captain of the Guard that he'd repair some of their armor that was damaged in some nasty skirmishes in the Deep Wood. He also says that he can fashion a Duelists Dagger for the Rogue within that timeframe.

More light is shed on this when you go to the temple. The Cleric of Melora explains that she has a supply of Healing Potions on hand as these have been heavily requested by the King's Guard. They have been doing battle with some manner of demonic creatures that have spilled forth from a rift located in the Deep Wood. She says that her prayers indicated that 'a priest seeking a boon would cleanse the Deep Wood' and believes you to be that priest. She sells you the Holy Symbol with the understanding that you'll use it to smite the demons that plague the town.

The Wizard reports to the local Wizard's Guild and finds them in a state of uproar. The last two caravans from the High Guild in the capital have vanished in the Deep Wood, probably due to the demonic plague there. They are desperately low on Alchemical Reagents and cannot craft the Orb that you seek. Also they sent one of their members to aid the King's Guard in the fight there but she has not returned. They promise that if you will go forth and crush this demonic menace they will reward you by crafting the Orb you seek for free. They only ask that you bring as many demon horns back as possible as they serve as Alchemical Reagents. As for the Ritual you desire, they don't have it available but do know for a fact that the High Guild has that in their library. If you can bring a stop to the demon problem then they will write you a letter of recommendation to gain access to this Ritual when next you visit the High Guild."

Something like that. So you give them some of what they ask for, some of it with strings attached, and some is unavailable until they undertake an adventure. You also give the impression that the magic item economy is effected by outside forces.