How to handle "shopping"?

[kitsune9]

Make the Shopping an Encounter in of Itself

I'm in the early phases of my first D&D 4e campaign, and my first campaign as DM since college, and my current batch of players are much more "serious" about D&D than any previous party. To try and keep them engaged, I've been making an effort to play out, either RP or mechanically, things I used to just gloss over. The next major milestone in my DM evolution will be when my players get to the big city with pockets full of gold pieces.

In previous campaigns I would just let me players tell me "I bought x, y, and z while everyone was sleeping", but it seems unrealistic to me that every little town or village would have everything for sale in the PHB and AV. On the other hand, handing the players inventory lists for every store in Brindol seems to go too far the other way. And what about magic items -- can I just assume any magic item the players can come up with can be made at "the magic item store"?

How can I make a more reasonable shopping experience without boring the crap out of the whole table? Or is it even worth the effort?

If you want shopping to be a little more interesting, I would write up encounters (not necessarily combat-oriented) that offer clues, tidbits to future adventures, or simply just text-box that adds to the atmosphere of the shopping. Players may think there onto something in their foray into market but actually, it's just a way to keep their interest and get them engaged.

Also, use the encounters to create a general goods store that is a one-stop shopping and make the set-up like the following:

1. The Players indicate to the DM what they want to buy as one big list.
2. The DM then tells the PC's of a merchant, store, guild that is likely to have the items.
3. The DM has box text to describe the place, the merchant, etc. He has some items, maybe all of them, etc. The PC's can roleplay it out.
4. Add twists to the encounter by telling having some items not easily available and that the PC's must do the following:
a. Go see another merchant who has the item they need, but he's not likely to part with it. Get ready to really barter for it. Use this for powerful items.
b. An adventurer had just bought it. Maybe it's the PC's rivals or good friend. Maybe he'll sell it for a higher price. Maybe the PC's will just kill him and loot his butt.
c. The guild/merchant doesn't have the item, but they need a job done first and will have it available. This should be a short excursion, not a full-fledged adventure (though the DM could do it if wanted to).

In my campaign, I don't do any of this because my players are not role players for haggling over prices or buying stuff. Also, they would easily get derailed in the current adventure since none of them take notes, so I don't want to add to the confusion. In my campaign, we have pre-defined GP limits of what they can buy (similar to the RPGA standards of Living Greyhawk) and in between adventures they just buy their stuff, record it on their character sheets and we're done.

Another reason why players get bored with shopping is that in my experience, as soon as they get into a city or town, they split up. One guy goes to the armor smith, one guy goes to the temple, another goes to a tavern, another goes shopping. When you deal with one guy at a time, it is inevitable that one player will end up hogging the spotlight because of haggling, questions, etc and everyone else just sits. Try to keep the players together for whatever reason or at least very close by each other. If they do split up, keep a timer on interacting with each separate party so that one person doesn't end up taking too much time.

Happy gaming.

 

[Lanefan]

My suggestion would be to handle this out of session via e-mail or messageboard group (we've got those here at ENW and it's great!). This doesn't mean that it need lack in flavor however.

[followed with some excellent ideas, here snipped]

The sequence of ideas you posted could just as easily be handled in-session; particularly if the intent is to lead in to a new adventure and-or the party is looking for something to do.

It's the town stop-and-shops where they already know what they're doing next adventure-wise that can get bogged down in a hurry.

That said, the bigger problem with doing it all out-of-session via e-mail etc. is that the at-table session in which they visit the town has to somewhat by default grind to a stop at that point. If they don't know what gear they can buy or commission, they can't very well continue adventuring or progress forward in time beyond the town visit.

Never mind that IME any party visiting any city, town, village, or hamlet is by definition a time-bomb of chaos waiting to explode.

Lanefan

 

[Ydars]

I handle shopping just like any other part of roleplaying.

First, magic items. If you want a magic item, you have to find someone who can trade them or will sell them. This usually means a high level wizard. So you have to find a wizard (they never live in towns or close to people) then convince them to grant you an audience and then deal very carefully with them (they are not tame, they are really rather dangerous). I would handle this whole thing as an extended skill challenge, where the PCs have to get 3 successes in Gather information to find the wizard and then use insight, diplomacy etc to gain his trust and get him to charge a reasonable price. Any failures with the information gathering phase attract "unwanted attention" i.e someone hears that the PCs want to buy magic items, work out they have money, feed them false rumours to get them somewhere remote and then try and ambush them. Failures at the negotiation stage entails undertaking a "task" for the wizard to get him to co-operate and sell or trade the items.

For mundane stuff, I weave a story: if the PCs are shopping, I would have attempted pick-pockets, witnessing petty crime, hearing rumours etc interweaved with shopping, stop a brawl, witness a arguement that is later followed by a murder, or chase an escaped bull that has run amok etc. Just cut back and forth very quickly between the PC who is trying to shop and those who aren't and give the ones who aren't a microstory to play out that is in some way intriguing. Sometimes, it is as simple as the chapman (travelling seller who carries goods on his back) trying to swindle the PCs and sell them substandard goods. If they don't notice, the item they purchased fails during the adventure and gives the PCs a personal "connection" to the NPC who sold them the goods. I would usually use this for "tinker" type sellers to give it some annoyance value and later my PCs would try and find this wandering merchant with a view to teaching him a lesson. The lesson: a shop is never just a shop, it has an associated set of baggage by the time I am finished. EVERYTHING is a story.

You often just need some local colour that gives some idea of personalities or backstory. You can then invent all kinds of stuff, like the store-keeper is an alchoholic who drinks all the time when he thinks no-one is watching, or the armourer who is having an affair with one of the Mayor's daughters. It can all be weaved in and gives rise to some surprising backstories if you give it a bit of thought.

I find that doing this sort of thing works very well and makes shopping etc another enjoyable part of the game, but YMMV of course. You, as DM, have to make sure you don't let your energy levels drop when you run this part of the game, or else it doesn't work: buy the rope, ho-hum etc.

 

[fba827]

My excessive personality would want to list out the inventory for every shop. However, I found it is rarely worth the effort for most of my sessions. What I have roughly settled on is...

for each store, I decide up to what level of item it has available ("items up to level 5") - this takes in to account the size of the town as well as access to major roads etc, and then I also note any category types ("armor and weapons" "no potions or boots" ""nonmetal items only" and so on). And then I take any specific item on a case by case basis.. usually i'll just say "okay, you bought it, subtract the money and add the item" once in a while if i want that item to be a bit rarer i'll have a reason for it not to be in stock "oh, you want veterans armor? sorry there was a defect in the armor so we sent it back to the supplier and waiting for the patched version"). and occasionally, in my notes, i might say something like "regular cost +25%" to say something is generally more expensive here for whatever reason (but i do that only under special circusmtances)

 

[caudor]

I like the idea (previously mentioned) about setting up non-combat encounters. I like the idea of using Skill Challenges to locate rare resources. A player that invested in a skill like Streetwise may get to feel they benefited from the points invested.

I'm always looking for ways to work all the major skills into my campaign. Perhaps this is yet another way.

 

[Ydars]

Here is a table I have used in the past to create some local colour, to add to shopping time.


Mundane "shopping encounters". Roll 1d20 + 1d10

2: Pickpocket trys to cut purse while PCs are haggling. If he succeeds in cutting purse, run a chase where certain by-standers turn out to be part of the pickpocket's crew and obstruct etc. Turning the 'pocket in to law earns guild ire.

3: Horse becomes frightened and runs off with cart bearing a tiny child. PCs can earn reward to catching cart and save child.

4: Tradesmen become irate with PCs when he sees goods they bought elsewhere. They are from his hated rival and he now charges PCs double in future.

5: Change/coins the PCs get from a transaction are counterfeit or clipped (perception to notice). If PCs pass these on, there will be trouble.

6: Drunk staggers into shop and starts causing trouble. He tries to start a fight with one of PCs.

7: Chapman sells PCs a substandard item (perception). This item will fail the first time it is used in earnest.

8: Minor fire starts at establishment where PCs are haggling.

9: PCs are offered an item of superior quality that allows a +1 skill check or does 1 extra point of damage if sharpened everyday, for normal price.

10: Argument between two other people in the shop erupts during shopping and results in violence. Later, one of these men is murdered and the PCs called as witnesses.

11: Shopkeeper's wife/daughter flirts with PCs and this earns the ire of the shopkeeper.

12: Whilst haggling, goods are being unloaded into the shop/stall by a labourer and a box/crate/barrel breaks open revealing some illicit goods. PCs might be offered a minor bribe to stay quiet.

13: Shop-keeper is approached by toughs asking for protection money during shopping.

14: PCs might notice shop is being very carefully watched by two "beggars". It is robbed that night.

15: Women/man collapses in shop: they have a contagious disease to which all the PCs present are exposed and he/she will die without immediate healing.

16: A noble enters the shop the PCs are in and insists upon instant attention. His bodyguards are rude and brutish and he is spoiled and foppish and easily annoyed. Unless the PCs give way they may be challenged to a duel.

17: Two apprentices in a shop are scolding a smaller ugly apprentice and bullying him. He will be badly injured by a practical joke involving stairs, if the PCs do not intervene.

18: Shop-keeper is arrested by the Beadles/Watch for flouting laws on weights and measures and is put into the stocks. He asks PCs to run shop for an hour. Roll again for another event that occurs whilst the PCs are in charge.

19: Drunk shop-keeper under-charges the PCs by 50% but later realises and asks for the correct money. If PCs are honest then they get good prices from now on.

20: Shop-keeper is challenged to a duel by the father of a local beauty, after he allegedly bedded the girl. Shop-keeper begs PCs to act as his champions.

21: Shop-keeper offers PCs an illicit substance (drugs or stolen goods) during normal transaction. He will clam up if questioned in any way.

22: Dancing bear goes berserk in market after someone throws a stone at it. PCs could help calm beast down or restrain it.

23: Item the PCs want is the last one and someone else wants it. They end up bidding to get it.

24: Crate of exotic foodstuffs is opened in PCs presence and suddenly a dangerous insect swarm is released and attacks.

25: Someone steals from the shop/stall using the PCs as a distraction.

26: Shop-keeper pesters PCs as he wants an item they have and offers to purchase it at good price.

27: Small bird enters shop and steals something small and valuable. The shop-keeper confesses that the creature is a real problem. It actually belongs to a clever thief and is a trained animal.

28: PCs keep hearing a strange noise below the floor of the shop they are in. In fact the thieves guild are cutting a tunnel or chamber below the shop and will be annoyed at any interruptions.

29: Item of PCs is stolen during haggling and then appears on the shelf of shop: there is a mischevious spirit that lives in the shop and tries to cause trouble for the current owner. The spirit can be exorcised by discovering its body in the cellar (the spirit appears at night, first appearing at this location) and burying it in hallowed ground.

30: Apprentice pesters PCs, as he wants to be an adventurer and wants to see their swords etc. He follows them around being annoying.

 

[Rel]

The sequence of ideas you posted could just as easily be handled in-session; particularly if the intent is to lead in to a new adventure and-or the party is looking for something to do.

It could if you are extremely good at thinking on your feet. Or if you know in advance that they are going to be shopping in some town and you want to tie that into the adventure you wish to run there. That's not always the case.

 

[Celebrim]

Of anyone else in the thread, Ydars comes closest to having my ideology concerning shopping. And his table of random shopping encounters is cool enough that I have to give him a, "You Rock!", shout out. It's just about perfect. The only thing wrong with it is that I want more.

 

[Ktulu]

I'm in the early phases of my first D&D 4e campaign, and my first campaign as DM since college, and my current batch of players are much more "serious" about D&D than any previous party. To try and keep them engaged, I've been making an effort to play out, either RP or mechanically, things I used to just gloss over. The next major milestone in my DM evolution will be when my players get to the big city with pockets full of gold pieces.

In previous campaigns I would just let me players tell me "I bought x, y, and z while everyone was sleeping", but it seems unrealistic to me that every little town or village would have everything for sale in the PHB and AV. On the other hand, handing the players inventory lists for every store in Brindol seems to go too far the other way. And what about magic items -- can I just assume any magic item the players can come up with can be made at "the magic item store"?

How can I make a more reasonable shopping experience without boring the crap out of the whole table? Or is it even worth the effort?

kUtulu? heh..ehhhh....


As I've stated in other posts, I often toss out money all together, focusing more on the plot/exposition. However, when I run games where I do use the money, I've found that utilizing streetwise (and other similar skills in previous editions) worked the best.

Making a skill challenge (when in a big enough location) works very well. First, they're making streetwise/diplomacy like checks to find the stores they're looking for. Then utilizing bribery/diplomacy/intimidates to get the rarer/illicit items, and so on.

I don't openly state a skill challenge, the party just knows how to go about finding what they need. If they succeed on the checks, they get the harder to find items. If they fail, they have the basic gear available to them (and often at a 40% mark-up, seeing how these people are OBVIOUSLY outsiders).


In most games, though, basic gear is expected and allowed. Special items can be requested and sought after, but I don't put much focus beyond, "do you have an adventuring pack? Good."

With a game I plan on runnning in the future, I may use it more heavily. For now, however, this is all my group wants.

 

[Ydars]

Thanks for clearing that up Ktulu: I just KNEW that I had read dozens of posts of yours and was very surprised to find that you suddenly seemed to have a postcount of only 4.