Monte Cook's new Dungeonaday.com?

[JoeGKushner]

But how much of "wilderness" counts when the "wilderness" encounters basically boil down to that? Encounters?

First time on road fight kobolds.

Second time make perception check to not get ambushed by kobolds.

Third time fight kobolds in their caves.

I'm not seeing that as being significantly different than dungeon crawling just because it's outside.

 

[Noumenon]

Or Goodman Games - a company whose popularity is pretty much due to classic dungeon crawls, all 50+ of them.

I just started playing these and I'm having so much fun. If you love dungeons but you haven't already played every one of them like DaveMage and Nellisir, I recommend this thread or this list where you can see reviews and find out which ones you'll like.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

One could certainly make that case in terms of the historical quantity of published titles (though I suspect a more thorough examination would put the ratio closer to 3:1 or 5:1 rather than 20:1). But maybe not in terms of what gets purchased and, more to the point, played.

The strongest "data" point of anecdotal evidence, as far as I am concerned, is those adventures that enter into the zeitgeist of D&D.

There's a reason that Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics have the words, "No NPCs that aren't meant to be killed!" proudly displayed on the cover. It's funny because it's true.

And Goodman Games built an entire company on the back of the DCCs by tapping into the zeitgeist.

If there's an untapped market out there, somebody really ought to get on it and give Joseph some competition.

But it won't be me because I play beer-and-pretzels, hack-and-slash D&D.

I'm a Philistine, I know...

Consider the adventures that get talked about here on EN World.

Don't be silly. ENworld isn't representative of gamers at large!

Snark aside, let's be frank: We are a different sort. We're all food critics, sitting around insisting that McDonalds must be failing because nobody in our social circle eats fast food hamburgers.

Finally, when you cite WotC, don't forget that their adventures aren't "all dungeon, all the time" either. KotS was only 50% to 70% dungeon, with wilderness, town, and social encounters a big part of it.

But how much of "wilderness" counts when the "wilderness" encounters basically boil down to that? Encounters? I'm not seeing that as being significantly different than dungeon crawling just because it's outside.

If the encounter boils down to a tactical engagement where the object is to kill the enemy and loot the bodies-- regardless of where it happens-- I'd say you're playing to the strengths of the core game.

And let's not be dismissive of the dungeon format as if it is nothing but dozens of rooms strung together with absolutely no pretense for either the monsters or the PCs to be there. "Dungeon" simply does not equate to "No story and no interesting NPCs."

I note that Monte didn't launch his new venture with "Interesting-NPC-With-Whom-You-Can-Roleplay-a-Day."

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

There's a reason that Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics have the words, "No NPCs that aren't meant to be killed!" proudly displayed on the cover. It's funny because it's true.

It think it's unfortunate. That particular marketing strategy plays to the caricature, and helps reinforce it. If it were taken as a joke, that would be one thing. But it's most often not taken as a joke, but rather as an actual defining characteristic of old-school dungeon play. It's not just Goodman that's done that; Necromancer Games did something similar with Rappan Athuk's ad copy. It makes me frown in the same way that saying "dungeon crawls suck because they're completely random and ridiculous -- just look at the random dungeon generator in the 1e DMG" makes me frown.

Like most caricatures, there's an element of truth in the outlandish exaggeration. For example, my dungeon-centered games all have the underlying premise that the PCs start out seeking "fortune and glory," so looting the lairs of Chaos for gold and jewels and certainly a big part of play. And, as I mentioned before, I like the concept of an underworld with mythic/mystic properties, so that the dungeon doesn't necessarily play by the same laws of reality as the normal world. But that doesn't mean that the dungeon is ridiculous or doesn't make sense or have its own consistency and verisimilitude. I just wish the caricature didn't have such widespread acceptance as "this defines the dungeon crawl."

 

[Mark]

I note that Monte didn't launch his new venture with "Interesting-NPC-With-Whom-You-Can-Roleplay-a-Day."

There must have been a sale on hyphens.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It think it's unfortunate. That particular marketing strategy plays to the caricature, and helps reinforce it. If it were taken as a joke, that would be one thing. But it's most often not taken as a joke, but rather as an actual defining characteristic of old-school dungeon play.

Yes, as it's unfortunate that McDonald's hamburgers are cheap and greasy and fast....

... and they've sold billions of them.

 

[lmpjr007]

I just listened to the podcast and I think it is a move in the right direction in the evolution of marketing products for gamers. Years back, Phil Reed did DM's Idea Pipeline which lasted two years. I see this in a nice spin off of that idea. I think Monte will do very well with this, but I do think other companies will copy this idea and start using it for their own product lines also.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I do think other companies will copy this idea and start using it for their own product lines also.

Anybody in particular?

 

[lmpjr007]

Anybody in particular?

Any company looking to have a regualr source of income coming in.

Using Monte cook as a source, if you get 50 monthly member at $7 each that is $350 monthly. Not a ton of money but if you think about it from a business point of view, that would pay for any where between roughly 12K to 35K words (1 to 3 cents per word) of work. As a business you could do the first few months yourself, then pay for one or two months worth of a "sub writer" who ghost writes for you, while you work on another project to make you even more money. Plus when you get enough online material, you convert it to a POD book that you sell at Lulu or direct with Paizo. Even more money is generated.

...And that is just with 50 memebers. How many subscribers do you think Monte will get?

 

[BryonD]

Anybody in particular?

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