Monte Cook's new Dungeonaday.com?

[Wulf Ratbane]

But see, Wulf is saying that the majority of people enjoy the "all dungeon all the time" style of play, which my own empirical evidence denies.

You are not playing it "wrong," but you are certainly not playing D&D in the "classic" sense.

You're a niche. (On another continent, to boot.)

The historical market of adventure offerings is 20 to 1 (or more) against you and your atypical experience.

There is absolutely no reason to take offense at that.

In another 30 years, the game may well catch up to you and the experience you believe has defined it for the past 10.

 

[Piratecat]

Make sure you aren't making personal shots at the people who disagree with you, folks - and thanks to everyone who is already making sure they aren't.

You're a niche.

I don't think I'd agree. I know many hundreds of gamers, and I know of about five who prefer the dungeon-all-the-time experience. My empirical evidence suggests that it's far more common for people to buy superb dungeon campaigns like Castle Whiterock or World's Largest Dungeon so that they can yoink the fun pieces out to use elsewhere. If you want to split that conversation off into another thread, it may make for some really interesting discussion.

---

And to get back on topic, I've gotten a sneak preview of Dungeonaday! So far I like what I see. I'm not sure the cost is a great deal, especially if you lose access to the material once your subscription lapses, but it strikes me as a reasonable deal for the quality and quantity of content I'm seeing. I'm hoping that he'll offer as discount for a year's subscription, if he hasn't already.

So far Monte has 12 rooms up, along with a full level 1 map and a side map. There's background information on the dungeon, info on the big threats, a glossary, and a player handout or two. There is art for the rooms (both specific and generic), map closeups, photos of the map built with Dwarven Forge pieces, and miniature suggestions.

Here's something I love. Where this dungeon really shines is providing DMs with an example of how to make a "living" dungeon. Rooms have information on what's there the first time the PCs arrive, and how they change during revisits. I really like how this is implemented; just doing a quick read, it makes the dungeon seem vital and alive. There's also some cool, unexplained weirdness even at 1st level. I see a lot of yoinkable ideas here, and I fully intend to use some of them in my own game.

I am sorry that there aren't 4e stats. My hope is that the fan base on the forums will convert beasties into 4e statistics, which Monte can then link to.

Site navigation is just fine, and will get better once the map is hyperlinked directly to the room descriptions (something that is forthcoming, I believe.)

Initial opinion: thumbs up. Useful and fun, with clear potential and the likelihood of gathering momentum.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't think I'd agree. I know many hundreds of gamers, and I know of about five who prefer the dungeon-all-the-time experience. My empirical evidence suggests that it's far more common for people to buy superb dungeon campaigns like Castle Whiterock or World's Largest Dungeon so that they can yoink the fun pieces out to use elsewhere. If you want to split that conversation off into another thread, it may make for some really interesting discussion.

Fork away. The upshot of your empirical evidence is that there is a huge market for non-dungeon adventures that has been underserved for decades, including by WoTC-- who under ordinary circumstances gets a pretty wide berth around here for knowing what the "real market" is (e.g., I know hundreds of ENworlders who won't touch 4e with a ten-foot pole...)

EDIT: It may be that the "non-dungeon" market is simply served by the Campaign Setting format.

 

[Nellisir]

Hi. I'm Dave and I like dungeon crawls.
I like big dungeon crawls and I like small dungeon crawls.
I like the World's Largest Dungeon and Rappan Athuk Reloaded.
I like the Tomb of Horrors and Castle Whiterock (and the other 51 DCCs for 3.x).
I like Undermountain and the Lost Tomb of Abysthor.
I even like the Caverns of Thracia and Dark Tower.
I like the dungeons under Ptolus and the Temple of Elemental Evil.
And even with all of that, I still want more.

Amen. I love dungeons.

 

[Nellisir]

Really? Well then could you explain to me how an "all crawl, all the time" type of game is fun. Such reminds me of FF Tactics, but with more headaches.

PS. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'd actually like to understand the appeal therein.

Could you explain what you consider "all crawl", or perhaps what -isn't- "all crawl"? I've run pretty dungeon-centric campaigns for some time now, and while there are things I leave out of my campaigns, I do so because I'm not skilled at running "those sorts" of campaigns (ie, long on intrigue, short on action). That said, I make things interesting for the characters, give them motivations (or take the motivations I'm given and exploit those), use reoccuring villains and evil alliances, places of sanctuary, etc and so forth. In 15+ years I've never had a player complain about the setting.

A dungeon is a setting, just like a wilderness is a setting or a town is a setting. Complaining that dungeoncrawling isn't fun because once upon a time you randomly rolled up a dungeon makes about as much sense as saying that intrigue-adventures are boring because you watched Masterpiece Theatre once and didn't like it.

 

[Sammael]

EDIT: It may be that the "non-dungeon" market is simply served by the Campaign Setting format.

This is certainly the case for me. I love buying campaign settings and mining them for material in my campaigns.

 

[GlassJaw]

EDIT: It may be that the "non-dungeon" market is simply served by the Campaign Setting format.

Or Goodman Games - a company who's popularity is pretty much due to classic dungeon crawls, all 50+ of them.

 

[EricNoah]

I too received a free sneak peek and had a reaction similar to Piratecat's - fun, useful if you want to see a 3.5 dungeon develop over time, seems a bit pricy for what you get, easy to navigate. I don't know that I would feel comfortable actually running a dungeon when only some of the rooms are ready to go, so I could see folks holding off for a while before signing up. I will share more opinions as I get a chance to read through some of the material in depth.

 

[avin]

Count me as one people who are not really fond of dungeons. Almost all people who play around here, even some that started with 1E, would rather play a less door to door game.

While I like Toee (PC game) and Diablo if I had to find an example for dungeons I would go with Ultima Underworld II and Ultima VIII.

 

[CharlesRyan]

Fork away. The upshot of your empirical evidence is that there is a huge market for non-dungeon adventures that has been underserved for decades.

One could certainly make that case in terms of the historical quantity of published titles (though I suspect a more thorough examination would put the ratio closer to 3:1 or 5:1 rather than 20:1). But maybe not in terms of what gets purchased and, more to the point, played.

Consider the adventures that get talked about here on EN World. Yes, WLD spawned a ginormous thread, but by and large the adventures that have sparked conversation have been the Dungeon/Paizo adventure paths, Red Hand of Doom, and things like that.

Of course, it may be that these sorts of adventures simply give us more to talk about by their nature. But I wonder if it isn't more than that: I suspect that these are some of the best-selling adventures of the recent era. And because they cover longer story arcs, they represent a LOT of play.

I also suspect that homemade campaigns skew very, very heavily toward non-dungeon play. I can only cite anecdotal experience, but the last time I personally experienced a home-designed dungeon in the true D&D sense of the word was probably 1982.

Finally, when you cite WotC, don't forget that their adventures aren't "all dungeon, all the time" either. KotS was only 50% to 70% dungeon, with wilderness, town, and social encounters a big part of it.