Keep on the Shadowfell - Irontooth

[Trellian]

OK, thanks. A controller is actually what I lack as well.

 

[Regicide]

OK, thanks. A controller is actually what I lack as well.

Ugh, be careful of what players say, their DM undoubtadly gimped the encounter for them. Played intelligently 10 kobold minions with +5 to hit with ranged attacks doing 4 damage/hit will focus on and drop a level 1 character who doesn't have good AC on round one. The wyrm priest adds potentially over 50 extra HPs the party needs to cut through with it's power, then it's blast or ranged attack does a nice job softening up the party. The shields, played correctly wait for the minions to charge in, then they charge/shift in and between flank and their horde bonus it's a gaurenteed 6+2d6 damage between the two of them even against good AC, added on to the minion's attacks (with charge or flank bonus) and again, another dropped character. Add Irontooh into the mix and it's a gaurenteed TPK for a level 1 party. If the outside monsters get involved as well it's completely impossible unless the kobolds are running around like headless chickens.

 

[Klaus]

OK, thanks. A controller is actually what I lack as well.

My problems with this were diminished because, even at level 1, two PCs had attacks to deal with minions: the human ranger had Dire Wolverine Strike and the warlord is a dragonborn. So between the two of them, they cleared half of the kobolds outside the waterfall in the first few rounds (and they got a surprise round, to boot). In addition, the ranger's longbow with Twin Strike was essential in downing two minions per round.

The wyrmpriest wasn't as dangerous, because the group's warlock is a tiefling, so his fire attacks barely singed her.

 

[Eldorian]

I've killed 2 parties with Irontooth's encounter. I played them smart, and had a better grasp of the rules than the PCs. It was there first adventure, and I had read the books and played in a few events before I ran it.

 

[Nail]

Played intelligently 10 kobold minions with +5 to hit with ranged attacks doing 4 damage/hit will focus on and drop a level 1 character who doesn't have good AC on round one.

...yeah.....

As soon as I see the phrase "monsters played intelligently", I get a bit skeptical. In games I've seen, that sometimes means "using information the monsters wouldn't have" combined with "thinking out how best to attack the specific PCs in question". Ugg. (I'm saying this as a pretty blood-thirsty DM.)

I ran a party of 5 through the Irontooth encounter straight-up, exactly as written in the module. The PCs managed to prevent the kobolds inside from being warned with a judicious use of Ray of Frost. Once rested, the PCs charged in.

The kobolds started out spread out (again, as shown in the module), and needed to perceive threats in order to react to them, instead of acting as if they knew everything the DM knew. I followed the order of the fight (including waves 2 and 3) exactly. As the PCs used a side entrance rather than the waterfall entrance, there was no time at which all the kobolds could focus missile fire at one PC. (If you look at the set-up, the kobolds are pretty easy to catch in bottle-necks and around corners.)

It was a very challenging fight, no doubt. But the PCs triumphed. In fact, they succeeded at the very tail-end of the fight (only Irontooth left, bloodied and going down fast, despite his regeneration) in intimidating Irontooth with a natural 20 on the roll. Very neat and impressive. Hardly required for the PCs to have won, but a great way to end the fight.

 

[le grand fromage]

Wouldn't ever like to think I'd "gimped"? an encounter but my PC's (4) managed this OK. They took it carefully, lots of scouting outside, and as Nail says bottle necks inside, plus fighting retreats (and a flaming sphere) helped. It was touch and go though a few bad rolls would have changed the outcome. I'd also made sure they were 2nd level by running them through the Kobold Hall scenario first before starting on KotS...

 

[Nail]

They took it carefully, lots of scouting outside, and as Nail says bottle necks inside, plus fighting retreats (and a flaming sphere) helped.

Flaming Sphere is just a super Wizard Daily. We love our wizard for it.

As for your first point: "Go Slow" is a good way to approach most WotC-published adventures. I know from 3.xe that most Dungeon adventures could be broken wide open by taking your time and letting the monsters come to you. Charging in almost always made it harder.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Our party made serious use of the waterfall squares to gain defensive benefits and a nice bottleneck.

Irontooth hurt - but by the time we got him bloodied, it was because we were focus firing him: he only survived 2 rounds past that. I think that's most of the logic behind the bloodied trigger powers: the little guys should be all gone by the time it occurs, and the bloodied state won't last long.

The worst thing you can do is to spread attacks around after focussing a big bad to bloodied.

 

[Regicide]

The kobolds started out spread out (again, as shown in the module), and needed to perceive threats in order to react to them, instead of acting as if they knew everything the DM knew.

And if your kobolds couldn't percieve the threat of the PCs then they were being played like they were gimped. It's 60 feet or so between the furthest of them, free action shout and away you go.

I followed the order of the fight (including waves 2 and 3) exactly. As the PCs used a side entrance rather than the waterfall entrance, there was no time at which all the kobolds could focus missile fire at one PC. (If you look at the set-up, the kobolds are pretty easy to catch in bottle-necks and around corners.)

No, it is impossible to catch them in bottlenecks a) it's too small, they can cover half the combat area in a single move (IF THEY'RE MOVED INTELLIGENTLY) b) trying to do so puts the party in plain sight of the dragonshields and wyrm priest, c) if the party knows to even try it, then your party is acting on information THEY don't have.

And this is ridiculous pilled on top of blindingly stupid that the place could be snuck up on in the first place, that the kobolds outside would fight to the death like lemmings and not flee and alert the cave when they see their allies being casually cut down. That the "gaurds" would be standing where they are where they have no line of sight.

Despite how mind-numbingly retarded the setup is, I played it like it was in the book, even let my party "sneak in" and they got a mininon too. They weren't able to kill the 2nd one though and... oh look, it retreated and... oh look, next round there were 9 kobold minions ready for the party... which was standing in line of sight of the wyrm priest/dragon shields as my party used the same entrance yours did.

It was a very challenging fight, no doubt. But the PCs triumphed.

My PCs where annihilated. I didn't gimp the encounter.

BTW, if your party beats this encounter you may as well pack in the module. It's the hardest encounter in the module, a CR6 where most of the rest is CR2, and even the final fight is easier. Just hand your party 2 levels and go on the the next module. Going through the motions of the rest of KotS is just pointless d20 wrist action. If they can beat a CR6 at level 1, the CR2s are a complete waste of time.

 

[Branduil]

All but two of the party died when we did this encounter, and we had a 6-person group. Of course it didn't help that the Wizard charged in ahead of everybody.