DMs: what have you learned from PLAYING that has made you a better DM?

[Nai_Calus]

I'm DMing my first campaign, and I'm still getting a feel for it, but there's a lot of things I've learned from playing that I'm trying to keep in mind:

The players are not the characters. This cannot be emphasised enough. Social skills, Knowledge checks, this stuff is in the game for a reason. Sometimes the guy who has 8 CHA IRL wants to be the charismatic guy. As long as he makes an actual effort and doesn't say anything horribly stupid, let him use Diplomacy, etc to back up his words. The characters are well above average intelligence but they're not getting your puzzle? Let them make knowledge or intelligence checks to figure something out about it.

Don't rely on puzzles that involve players noticing positions of things on battlegrids as a primary method of solving it. Battlegrids that they don't seem to be on. Especially if you're doing it online and one of the players *can't see the tokens* on the other map due to loading errors... Similarly, any puzzle that has to be primarily metagamed, don't do. Nothing takes me out of the game faster than being forced to metagame and my character's abilities suddenly meaning nothing.

Be consistent. Making things up on the fly is good, but not when it completely disregards the rules and previous encounters.

Don't shut it down when the players try to think of other ways to solve the puzzle when they're not seeing your One True Solution. At least provide reasons other than 'why would you want to do that?'.

Don't use totally unbelievable obstacles. If I'm in a freaking half-full magma chamber, jumping around on platforms 10 feet above the surface of the lava... Uh, I'm not jumping, actually. I'm dead. It's going to be several hundred degrees in there and possibly a thousand or more.

Know what your players are capable of, what your monsters are capable of, and ensure that their gear and capabilities actually give them a chance. If you're not using WBL guidelines for characters created above 1st level, make damned sure you give them enemies to fight that they can actually deal with.

The players can tell when you're singling them out for being picked upon. Don't do it. If you have a problem with them, talk to them, don't try to screw over their characters at every turn. Listen to them when they have problems with you as well and don't dismiss it as 'whining'. Trust between the players and DMs is important. Once that trust is shattered it stops being fun. If you don't trust your DM to not screw you over...

Do not under any circumstances let a player shut down another, especially in a group where the players involved are the only ones really RPing and the other guy(s) are just there to fight.

If a new character will clash with another existing character in a way that absolutely cannot be resolved without ludicrously tortured logic, it probably shouldn't be allowed. No sane person is going to run around in potentially deadly situations trusting their lives to someone who has poisoned them for literally no reason, or who has attacked them for subdual damage with the promise to not use the flat of the blade next time. The profession is too dangerous and the world too large to stupidly stay with people you know will harm you. If you can't enjoy a character that doesn't have Dramatic Physical Conflict with another character, I don't want you in my game anyway.

Never mock your players' characters or their traits. If you hate the character that much you should have vetoed it at character creation. Mocking it OOC when a character brings up in-game that he keeps a journal just makes the player feel like they shouldn't even bother RPing.

Now if I can just get past the problems of combat being long and boring due to the nature of online playing and us not being able to use voice chat for talking. It just simply takes too long to type out a description of what you're doing in combat, then move your token, then roll your dice and usually having to mention some modifier it takes too long to find in Fantasy Grounds. Same with describing rooms and such. The players get bored waiting for me to type and then having to read what I typed, instead of me just being able to say things. Urgh.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I think your point is good one and I've noticed the same thing: "on the fly" adventures are often punitively arbitrary. I think there's a definite sentiment at EN World which is effectively anti-preparation (as preparation breeds outcome attachment), but I believe careful preparation to be almost always preferable to copious "on the fly" decision making.

Improvisation, like a spice, can help flavor an adventure, but it doesn't make for a good adventure by itself. Unless you have a very simple setup, there's just no way to maintain coherence in the face of the usual litany of PC questions and actions.

To expand on your point, this is also why I like rules-heavy RPG systems like GURPS: they allow for the neutral adjudication of a host of complex situations in a way that is context-independent. This helps keep both players and GMs honest, and reduces bickering about whether this or that skill modifier is fair or punitive.

I can't speak for anyone else, but from my experience the reason someone may not like the idea of much preparation is because it's easier to let yourself go if you haven't built up as much expectation in yourself about how things are going to happen. It's not that you're stuck to an idea, it's that the idea has acquired inertia and if you stop it moving there's a longer delay in adjusting.

Also sometimes it's just too much work to do much more than simple prep.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Don't use totally unbelievable obstacles. If I'm in a freaking half-full magma chamber, jumping around on platforms 10 feet above the surface of the lava... Uh, I'm not jumping, actually. I'm dead. It's going to be several hundred degrees in there and possibly a thousand or more.

"Unbelievable" is relative. I read that situation and don't have any problem believing it, even when you say it's impossible. Sometimes it's possible to suspend your sense of reality.

 

[Parduz]

Man! Reading all these suggestion with my poor English knowledge is really an hard task... but i rolled high, so i want to thank you for all your though. I'm learning.

I think that i should try to share my experience, as i'm an "unusual" DM (more about this later) and an happy player.

I play RPGs only occasionally, and i've one of the best Master i know: he play his own version of Gurps, often in a Sci-fi set. He is a true talent in storytelling and acting NPCs, making noises and explosions and waving hands all the time. We never feel forced to "follow the plot" (we die a lot for this reason, 'cause the plots are always smart and if you do not make the right, logical choices you go in a sea of troubles), and my characters really start to think to suicide....
Another friend like to Master D&D: i truly hate him as a DM. He TRY to tell you what happens, but you get bored very soon.... then the whole adventure become a "Fight-rest-fight-rest-fight-cure-fight-rest"

The lesson for me as DM is: be critical about yourself. If you're a good actor, act, otherwise use another talent. As a DM you have to do what you know you have talents for. If you try to be different, you fail.

About me as DM: i am the DM for 15 consecutive days in a year, when i go to sea with my family in the summer holidays.
My players are my 2 sons (9 and 11 years old, right now) and a cousin 14 years old.
We started to play D&D 3 years ago...
DMing for a so young audience can be a pleasure and a curse in the same time:
The PROs are many:
1) They don't try to max the character, they instead took the skills and the feats that sounds COOL. Feats tree have no meanings, for them. My son, the younger, is an elf archer ranger (Legolas of the LOTR trilogy is the model he follow) and he WANTED a fellow horse. So he spend his skills in handle animals and similar things, even if he never fight mounted 'cause he did not want to risk that horse. My daughter is the halfling thief, but she never stole anything. She just want to be agile, cute and hidden. The cousin is the Monk, the "Anime" version of it
Is a party that NEEDS a cleric and a "tank", but they feel happy with theyr PCs, they never build up them thinking at power playing, and i think this is fantastic.
2) The never do "metagaming".... just because they can't
3) I NEVER use battle grids. Instead i keep the imagination running: they describe what they want to do, and if it is believable i tell to roll something. They want to be the "hollywood/anime style" heroes, and i like to see what these young brains can imagine

The CONS?
1) You have to take care of what happens: gore is not really a problem (the kid always tell me how much he splat the enemies ) but he (in RL) fears to be alone in the dark, and so his Hero... so i learned to never let the party split.
2) The party is weak: if they don't kill the bads in few rounds, they can really die, so i have to cheat some roll, or to tune down the bads due to the party low power
3) a PC dead is a NIGHTMARE: my son dead for a bad roll, and (obviously) he start to be angry and crying at the same time... so i told him a "lesson" about winning or loosing (we also play boardgames, so he already know how to loose.... but he loves his PC too much to be calm ), then the friends bring back his dead body to the town, where a cleric resurrect it

Finally, right now i'm DMing the Red HAnd of Doom with my friends, testing the adventure for my kids for this incoming summer.
What i've learned from my young players is still valid, just need to be transposed for an adult audience: let them choose the PC they like, tell the story, let the players do what they like to do, with a description of the actions. Give prizes for some very cool or lucky combat: i use "cool points", an house rule found in the WotC forum. In this manner the player will love the character, and will start to fear for the dead while the adventure become harder. I'm not a good actor, but i can imagine and then describe well what the players see... so i go for it.
Every player "fears" something: to be not enough smart, or to be not so powerfull in combat... use these fears against the players: they will be more concentrated on what they do and why.

I hope that you can understand this long post. Writing so much in english is a hard task for me, i hope you find in this post something useful.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Parduz, your post was easy to read There are some grammar errors, of course, but your English is pretty good for it being a second language!

The lesson for me as DM is: be critical about yourself. If you're a good actor, act, otherwise use another talent. As a DM you have to do what you know you have talents for. If you try to be different, you fail.

True, you should try and play to your strengths; however, I think DMing is also a great way to expand your skills!

1) They don't try to max the character, they instead took the skills and the feats that sounds COOL.

I like this I am all for people optimizing their characters, but sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the "awesomeness" of an ability more.

3) I NEVER use battle grids. Instead i keep the imagination running: they describe what they want to do, and if it is believable i tell to roll something.

Sometimes I use a battle grid, sometimes I don't. I think running a game without a battle grid is useful, because it helps some players visualize things more; however, the strategic aspect of combat really shines with a battle grid! It depends a lot on your players, but mixing it up a bit works well for me.

3) a PC dead is a NIGHTMARE: my son dead for a bad roll, and (obviously) he start to be angry and crying at the same time... so i told him a "lesson" about winning or loosing (we also play boardgames, so he already know how to loose.... but he loves his PC too much to be calm ), then the friends bring back his dead body to the town, where a cleric resurrect it

One thing I've noticed about younger players is that they usually take things that happen to their characters much more harshly than older players. The important thing is that you teach them to be mature about it. Bad things will happen to your character, but that's part of the game's excitement!

 

[Parduz]

Parduz, your post was easy to read There are some grammar errors, of course, but your English is pretty good for it being a second language!

Thanks. I'm really worried about writing a lot and having no one understanding what i mean

Sometimes I use a battle grid, sometimes I don't. I think running a game without a battle grid is useful, because it helps some players visualize things more; however, the strategic aspect of combat really shines with a battle grid! It depends a lot on your players, but mixing it up a bit works well for me.

At the beginning of my "story" I was worried about the how much the PC sheet was complex, so i bought the D&D Basic Game box. It contains some minis, a reduced pre-made character sheet for the iconic heroes (7 skills, a couple of feats for each), and some tiles to build the dungeon. The kids learned the game mechanics and "how to role play". Then we start the real thing... they both told me that "it is much better without the grid". I think they have too much imagination to be forced in a square grid They're blaming me right now 'cause i've bought the RHoD book instead of writing the campaign myself

One thing I've noticed about younger players is that they usually take things that happen to their characters much more harshly than older players. The important thing is that you teach them to be mature about it. Bad things will happen to your character, but that's part of the game's excitement!

Yeah. They feel the character as a "true person", an extension of them in another world. This is what i think is great: they'll remember these early PC forever

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Yeah. They feel the character as a "true person", an extension of them in another world. This is what i think is great: they'll remember these early PC forever

Hey, I'm like this at 26, and I didn't start playing till I was maybe 18 or 19. You don't have to be a kid on the outside.

 

[Hereticus]

The number one lesson I learned is to MAKE THE GAME ABOUT THE CHARACTERS !!!

Do not create powerful NPCs to save the day, that leads to resentment.

Allow the characters to make choices and influence the direction of the campaign.

As they gain a few levels, allow them to obtain positions of power in the community and make decisions.

And include situations in as many adventures as possible that tie into their backgrounds and interests.

 

[Nai_Calus]

"Unbelievable" is relative. I read that situation and don't have any problem believing it, even when you say it's impossible. Sometimes it's possible to suspend your sense of reality.

Sure. When it's plausible and sensible. Epic-level character with fire resistance out the arse? Hell, lower-level character with fire resistance? Adventuring on the Paraelemental Plane of Magma where you've prepared for, well, running around a bunch of sodding lava? Sure.

Random mountain interior designed to be a test for warriors? Uhh... Level 9 Bard 4/Swashbuckler 5 wearing the standard Studded Leather armor a L1 character would have, whose only magical item was a cold iron longsword which was presumably the stock +1, who doesn't have resistance to anything? Umm... Nope. Not plausible at all. Total and complete pull out of the game. Heat your oven to 500 degrees and stick your head in it and tell me how nice that feels. Do not actually do this. Just opening the door with your face near it should be enough. It's going to be hotter than that in a room filled with lava. Holding your hand above a candle will get you burned.

It's for this exact reason that I can't watch volcano movies. Someone invariably has a flow of molten lava come within an inch of their shoes before they make a dramatic escape. Except, you know, the heat already killed them long before that.

Some concepts in some situations are simply so patently ludicrous that they simply cannot be handwaved.

This particular puzzle was a glorious example of really bad design. Room slowly flooding with lava due to cannons shooting holes in the wall. This was something that had supposedly been used before by the local population for testing warriors. Uh... Right. They reset it how? How are they planning to reset it after this? Why can't I jump on the cannons? Are they greased? 1 inch wide? They're not really cannons if they are now are they, more like guns. I've got a +10 Balance mod and a +9 Jump mod, I like my odds. I've got 83 HP, why can't I jump through that wall of fire and just soak up some fire damage? I'll use some cure spells on myself later. What, you mean later on in the puzzle after I've solved it much to your chagrin by accident I have to convince this NPC with me to jump through a wall... Of the same kind of fire? That he takes no damage from? What the hell was stopping me then? And this is on top of, yeah, magic antireality lava that does no damage until you're in it. (And no, it wasn't actually magic lava) Nevermind that a wall of stone thin enough to be shot through by a cannon likely wouldn't hold back molten magma very well...

Yes, yes, complaining about realism or the lack thereof in D&D is pointless/etc, but some things are just too much. Selectively hot lava. Any dragon living in a cave with tunnels smaller than it is. Some things just plain are stupid.

Unrealistic lava is also one of my pet peeves, so.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

Pacing is the biggest thing I have learned from sitting on the player's side of the table. Always, always, keep things moving.