Anyone else feel indifferent about the PDF thing?

[Cadfan]

I don't particularly care. My thoughts, in no particular order.

1. I don't think this will help piracy.

2. The people claiming that this represents some contractual breach are almost certainly wrong, and I've pointed that out politely.

3. The people claiming that this represents WotC doing something legally wrong to them, due to the downloads they feel they were promised by third party vendors, are also almost certainly wrong. I've also explained that one politely.

4. Beyond that, the only fun to be had in those threads is to tweak the trolls and the conspiracy nuts. I've refrained from doing so, even though its hugely entertaining and even though I don't think its morally wrong to chuckle at someone for being a paranoid conspiracy nut over a game, and even though I think that the rantings of paranoid conspiracy nuts are often a form of trolling. For the record: there's no reason to believe that this is because WotC fears a renaissance of older games, because that "renaissance" almost certainly pales in comparison to the sales of mass market games. There's no reason to believe that this is because of a failure of recent products, because available metrics suggest recent products have been successful. WotC doesn't owe you any money. WotC isn't doing this to inflate damages in a lawsuit against eight individual gamers (though they may mention it in the lawsuit since its part of the events surrounding the piracy issue), because that's stupid and their damages under the law probably already exceed what those eight guys can pay. There's probably more, but that's all that comes to mind at the moment.

5. Its certainly an odd business environment where Paizo is simultaneously WotC's competitor, and their contracted business partner, and a junior member of a field of colleagues. It makes for strange ironies, like Paizo's ability to take shots at WotC because they're competitors, the fact that they both work together anyways, and the way that WotC really can't take shots at Paizo. I don't think there's anything wrong or unfair about this, its just how it is. But its an odd social reality.

 

[Askaval30]

Dead tree user here, so color me unconcerned over the whole pdf deal. the only way they could remove access to my manuals would be if they showed up in person and took them away.

 

[Fenes]

This is my issue as well. Right before this happened there were a lot of threads on the front page I wanted to read or post in, either on new 4E rules items or roleplaying in general. Now most of the attention among the posters has been diverted to the megathread (were everything that was to be said has been said a dozen times over by now) and that thread is even getting half a dozen spinoffs and the lion's share of the community. And it happens again and again whenever WotC does something that can in any way be construed as wrong. Is the urge to rant and stick it to the man this great?

Again, it's not about sticking it to the man", it's about WotC deliberately telling people who want to buy PDFs that they are not welcome anymore. And many among us prefer PDFs to DTF, some are even, for weight or other reasons, dependent on them.

Pardon me for being blunt, but do you honestly expect someone to care much about discussing some rule or other point when his main interest is to see if he can use and read that rule at all in the future, because he can't transport his rulebooks to games anymore, or - in the case of disabilities - is unable to read them even at home?

I regularily play at a friend's house. I honestly can't lug around all the books I have and use at home, unless I use PDFs. I doubt that I am alone in that situation.

 

[Shroomy]

As someone who owns both the books and a DDI subscription, this decision doesn't affect me at all (and I suspect that the materials will be back up in a relatively short order anyways), other than the fact that I have to suffer through another multi-day internet brouhaha.

 

[Rechan]

in the case of disabilities - is unable to read them even at home?

I call BS.

As someone who is legally blind, and whose mother can barely see at all: PDFs mean jack as far as that is concerned. The disabled have been reading hardcover books, even via computer, before PDFs entered into the equation, thank you very much.

The Federation for the Blind either give you a V-Tech, or you're given a scanner and a voice program so you can lay a book down on the scanner and have the voice program reads it to you aloud.

And if we're talking visual impairments, a laptop with the PDF on there is not going to be very helpful, because laptops are hard to see; even with programs to enlarge the content on the screen, you will more than likely be hunched over like Quasimodo just to read the thing. And laptop screens are not kind to leaning in at that angle. Not to mention that, in order to increase the size of the content on the page so large in order to be read, it is vastly going to cut down on your ability to search the page to find the specific rule on that page. Something that the laptop touch pad is not going to be helpful at all.

So do not drag disabilities into a discussion where it doesn't apply, to make your case more sympathetic.

 

[Nymrohd]

Again, it's not about sticking it to the man", it's about WotC deliberately telling people who want to buy PDFs that they are not welcome anymore. And many among us prefer PDFs to DTF, some are even, for weight or other reasons, dependent on them.

Pardon me for being blunt, but do you honestly expect someone to care much about discussing some rule or other point when his main interest is to see if he can use and read that rule at all in the future, because he can't transport his rulebooks to games anymore, or - in the case of disabilities - is unable to read them even at home?

I regularily play at a friend's house. I honestly can't lug around all the books I have and use at home, unless I use PDFs. I doubt that I am alone in that situation.

And you are honestly telling me that the majority of posts on these threads is directed on these legitimate concerns? Also WotC makes the significant majority of rules available online at any moment through the Compendium already. Those few that are not available should be, but they certainly are few and the Compendium gets updated in more ways than simple addition of content. And last I checked, noone came and deleted all the WotC pdfs we have from our computers. Believe me I would have noticed.

 

[Nebulous]

It doesn't really bother me at all, and i'm...well, i can't say i'm surprised by the anger, i can see how it would bother lots of people. I don't use .pdfs much, although i used to enjoy the SRD time to time. The only pdfs i buy are from 3rd party anyway, and in general i greatly dislike reading pdf on the screen. I prefer hardback books anytime.

 

[Fenes]

I call BS.

As someone who is legally blind, and whose mother can barely see at all: PDFs mean jack as far as that is concerned. The disabled have been reading hardcover books, even via computer, before PDFs entered into the equation, thank you very much.

The Federation for the Blind either give you a V-Tech, or you're given a scanner and a voice program so you can lay a book down on the scanner and have the voice program reads it to you aloud.

So do not drag disabilities into a discussion where it doesn't apply, to make your case more sympathetic.

I stand corrected. Although the "I can't lug that many books around" argument stands.

Though, given the tone in thsi thread I don't expect much sympathy at all from some people. As long as they are not affected they do not care.

 

[Rechan]

Doublepost.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I call BS.

As someone who is legally blind, and whose mother can barely see at all: PDFs mean jack as far as that is concerned. The disabled have been reading hardcover books, even via computer, before PDFs entered into the equation, thank you very much.

The Federation for the Blind either give you a V-Tech, or you're given a scanner and a voice program so you can lay a book down on the scanner and have the voice program reads it to you aloud.

And if we're talking visual impairments, a laptop with the PDF on there is not going to be very helpful, because laptops are hard to see; even with programs to enlarge the content on the screen, you will more than likely be hunched over like Quasimodo just to read the thing. And laptop screens are not kind to leaning in at that angle. Not to mention that, in order to increase the size of the content on the page so large in order to be read, it is vastly going to cut down on your ability to search the page to find the specific rule on that page. Something that the laptop touch pad is not going to be helpful at all.

So do not drag disabilities into a discussion where it doesn't apply, to make your case more sympathetic.

*cough*
My little brother lost both his eyes to cancer... and he didn't get a scanner or a Vtech. He got JAWS, and loves the PDFs I bought for him.

I dare say that disability is a VALID reason for PDFs