How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

[Imaro]

I was thinking more along the line of your speed increasing if you move at a 45' angle relative to the game board. Like in 4.0

Dude that's not a problem that's a plus... now if I move diagonal I can describe my man as teleporting, moving at superspeed, or that he's a master of the space-time continuum...

Better yet it allows me as a player to take over narrative control, as when I move only in a diagonal way, it actually represents the fact that I can move more swiftly when running after something important to my character... Yeah I know I can move diagonally anytime I want but that's just one of the reasons it makes sense...Didn't you see above, sometimes I'm a master of the space time continuum too.

 

[Scribble]

Dude that's not a problem that's a plus... now if I move diagonal I can describe my man as teleporting, moving at superspeed, or that he's a master of the space-time continuum...

Better yet it allows me as a player to take over narrative control, as when I move only in a diagonal way, it actually represents the fact that I can move more swiftly when running after something important to my character... Yeah I know I can move diagonally anytime I want but that's just one of the reasons it makes sense...Didn't you see above, sometimes I'm a master of the space time continuum too.

Yeah you guys are so right...

I mean I can get behind D&D people moving in exact 5' squares at the exact same time over and over again almost roboticaly until their enemy is defeated (at which point their speed changes to another speed...) but adding this oddity about diagonals is CRAZYTIME.

 

[rounser]

If you're going to make statements like "you can't even visualize how some of the rules are manifesting" then my only answer is I'm glad I have the ability to imagine/visualize them "manifesting-" as if I didn't I wouldn't be having as much fun as I'm currently having.

I can handwave too. The problem you have is that your game makes so little sense in certain scenarios that your handwaving has to be inconsistent in it's excuses, because it doesn't handle corner cases, nor does it explain mundane superpowers away with magic as a dispensation. There's a point where all that handwaving causes suspension of disbelief to fail, and you just have to concede that it probably should have been designed differently.

 

[Scribble]

I can handwave too. The problem you have is that your game makes so little sense in certain scenarios that your handwaving has to be inconsistent in it's excuses, because it doesn't handle corner cases, nor does it explain mundane superpowers away with magic as a dispensation. There's a point where all that handwaving causes suspension of disbelief to fail, and you just have to concede that it probably should have been designed differently.

Maybe in your case this is true?

My case? I don't "handwave" as I've said- the rules of the game do not imply what is happening in the game world. The world determines what rules I use to determine outcome. This is why the "abstract" rules do not bother me (and even are a plus) because I can more easily utilize them as I want/need.

I understand this is not your style of play, and your above quote may apply to your own game experiences. It is not universal, however.

 

[Shroomy]

I can handwave too. The problem you have is that your game makes so little sense in certain scenarios that your handwaving has to be inconsistent in it's excuses, because it doesn't handle corner cases, nor does it explain mundane superpowers away with magic as a dispensation. There's a point where all that handwaving causes suspension of disbelief to fail, and you just have to concede that it probably should have been designed differently.

No we don't. I'm not the most immersive gamer out there, but I have not experienced any of the problems that you ascribe to 4e and its players, nor have I had any problem visualizing or imagining the events in-game or while reading the rules.

 

[rounser]

No we don't. I'm not the most immersive gamer out there, but I have not experienced any of the problems that you ascribe to 4e and its players, nor have I had any problem visualizing or imagining the events in-game or while reading the rules.

Sorry, my fault, this 35 page thread is just a mirage.

 

[rounser]

the rules of the game do not imply what is happening in the game world.

There's your problem.

 

[Scribble]

Sorry, my fault, this 35 page thread is just a mirage.

No- it's a testament to people time and time again trying to tell me why I shouldn't be able to imagine the things I can imagine... for some odd reason.

 

[Scribble]

There's your problem.

No... but apparently it causes a problem for you.

Tell you what... when we all get together for the Refined suggested I'll buy you one?

 

[rounser]

No... but apparently it causes a problem for you.

No, because I avoid games purporting to be D&D that can't even summon up a level of verisimilitude equal to Gygax/Mentzer/Zeb. I do appreciate the loss of an entire edition under the D&D name, though.