Inconsistant/Arbitrary rules...

[Tilenas]

It's not so arbitrary if you look at it the right way. Cover can stop an attack cold so it increases your defenses much like a shield does. Concealment, by mainly obscuring but not actually blocking you, doesn't specifically add to your defenses. It affects them in a may be aiming right, may not be aiming right, it's hard to see, kind of way. Plus, concealment is unaffected by the skill of the spotter while cover may be decisive or virtually irrelevant depending on the skill of the attacker.

I agree with your reasoning, it probably less arbitrary than it is inconsistent.
Still, why have a fixed d% chance when it's all a matter of perception? Why make hitting equally hard for everyone, regardless of Listen/Spot modifiers? You do get a bonus on hide checks when concealed, why not roll with that?

 

[Remathilis]

Ya, its 1ed AD&D, and some 2ed AD&D.

I know of no one that played 1ed AD&D by the book. Mr. Gygax did not play by the book. I can still read the DMG and finds rules I didn't know about.

My pet peeve was sneaking. Rangers, elves & halflings, and thieves all used different mechanics to get the jump on an opponent. And what if you had an elf theif?

Just one of many.

In 1e: You did it however the DM wanted to do it.

In 2e: A successful HS/MS role granted you a -2 bonus to your surprise roles. Elves & halflings got an additional -4 to that bonus (total -6 if both pass). Since surprise in 2e was 1-2 on a d10, you had to roll 1d10-6 and if the modified answer was 1-2, you were surprised.

This of course, could be further modified by races only surprised on a 1 AND your reaction adjustment to your DEX(?!) mod.

Example: An elven thief sneaks up on a human guard with a 16 dex. The thief makes both his HS/MS rolls (and doesn't have to open a door) so the guard rolls surprise. He rolls 1d10 adds his dex mod (+1), and subtracts 6 (total -5). He rolls a 7, which modified is a 2 and is surprised. If he had rolled a 9, his modified surprise would be 4 and he would NOT be surprised (and the thief could not get backstab). Initiative would then be checked as normal.

Remathilis "Steath was ALWAYS a PitA" Ooi.

 

[Particle_Man]

If I remember correctly, the racial picture in the PHB has half-orcs being the tallest of the lot.

Nope, the human with the helmet and awesome mustache was taller than the clean-shaven somewhat klingon-looking half-orc, in 1st ed AD&D players handbook. Alas I cannot find the picture on the net.

Interestingly, the racial picture in 3.0 phb has the half-orc woman WAY taller than the human woman, even though the height for half-orcs in description was on average 1 inch shorter (but there is enough racial variation that one could say "well, that particular human woman was short, and that particular half-orc woman was tall"). In 3.5 the height tables were changed, though the picture was kept.

Oh, speaking of 1st ed AD&D weirdness: Maximum male human strength is 18/00, greater than maximum male half-orc strength at 18/99. But maximum female human strength is 18/50, while maximum female half-orc strength is 18/75. Yes, that's right, half-orcs had more racial similarities between genders than humans. And of course, while humans had a higher maximum (if male and fighter types), half-orcs on average were stronger than humans due to a racial strength bonus. So Joe Human was weaker than Grak Half-orc was weaker than Conan/Arnold the strongest Human.

And then in Oriental Adventures 1st ed. you get the Korokoburu (some kind of dwarf) and can have str. 19 at start!

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It's different and could have been handled like a straight AC bonus since AC is astract enough, but I think I prefer it with the miss chance. It's an interesting way to model the difference between the two concepts of cover and concealment. But not really arbitrary.

I think it's exactly backward, myself.

If you're behind cover, a miss chance makes sense: you hit the cover instead of your target. If you're cloaked in shadow, an effective attack penalty makes sense: you're harder to target in general.

 

[MerricB]

Fall damage. What a joke. d6 per 10 feet, max 20d6? So assuming you rolled a six on every single of those twenty dice that's still only 120 HP damage. Mid-level characters can literary jump off mountains, and with the way HP works, just stand up and keep walking afterwards as though nothing happened.

I assume you mean in 3e. For, in 1e, 120 damage will kill almost any PC. They just didn't have that many hit points - and even less in oD&D!

Cheers!

 

[Treebore]

I want to thank everyone for keeping this friendly and conversational.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I want to thank everyone for keeping this friendly and conversational.

And bloody amusing

 

[jmucchiello]

My "favorite" peeve was 1e/2e exceptional strength. If you have a fighter, his to hit/dmg adj at 17 was +1/+1. If you rolled an 18 strength, it became +1/+3 at a minimum. 18 (no %) was +1/+2. Fighters couldn't have that strength. WTF? On top of that, if a fighter gained an 18 strength (though some magic) then, and only then, would have a +1/+2 because you didn't roll exceptional strength. On the other hand, a wish could add 10% to exceptional strength. So that 18 would go to 18/10, I guess. Perhaps.

 

[Nymrohd]

The biggest problem by far with exceptional strength was that getting a +1 bonus to strength could be a massive boost (from 18/01 or even 18 with no percentile directly to 19).

Anyway I don't think that before 3E there was any interest in cohesive designing (and even then there were and still are some fails but on a far smaller basis).

Btw who has access to Dragon #2 Orgy rules? I think I saw them somewhere on the net and they were completely arbitrary!

 

[Nikosandros]

I assume you mean in 3e. For, in 1e, 120 damage will kill almost any PC. They just didn't have that many hit points - and even less in oD&D!

Cheers!

However the average is 70 which is rather survivable by high level fighter types, and with the sum of 20 dice it's rather likely that the result will fall close to the average.