The problem isn't control effects, the problem is they completely busted every single one of them by continuing to add more ways to stack save penalties. This despite day 1 complaints on how busted sleep could be made due to this problem.
Visions of Avarice trivializes melee encounters?
- Thread starter kerbarian
- Start date
The problem isn't control effects, the problem is they completely busted every single one of them by continuing to add more ways to stack save penalties. This despite day 1 complaints on how busted sleep could be made due to this problem.
or just make the orb affect only one saving throw, so it is like the other implements that affect only one roll.
Orb of Imposition does only effect 1 person. The "Save vs I win" combo that Stalker described requires the following:
1) At least be 11th level as Spell Focus is a Paragon feat (and adds -2 penalty vs saves)
2) Have a High Wisdom score...which depending upon your Stat Generation method, will impact other areas of the game, ie Low STR, CHA etc
3) Requires 2 very specific Magic Items from Adventurer's Vault.
Which means that if you play in a group where in general, the players do not: make their own items, buy every splat book to scour for every possible advantage they can find, and take treasure as it is given to them......this problem will not really arise in your game.
If you play with a horde of Min/Maxing Powergamers with an abundance of disposable income...then you might want to plan for it.
The sad part is the system itself almost requires this level of penalty stacking....when Solos have a +5 bonus to saves, you best have quite a few stacking penalties to even bother to use a Daily with an effect based off a Saving Throw on a Solo. The flip side is the Solo will probably have a chance but the "yard trash" with him will fail.
It is also an Artefact of the system, that a Level 5 Daily has an effect that is unique enough, that conceivably a player may keep that power as opposed to trading up to higher level Dailies.
Stalker, if I may ask, how does your DM contend with you "Save vs I win" combos, or has he or she put a hit out on you already?
I haven't used it, but there are ways to water it down a little.
For one, have some creatures with ranged attacks in all of your difficult encounters (i.e. the encounters where the PC Wizard would use a Daily). The immobilize will not adversely affect them too much. If melee PCs come into attack them, then they are not as harmed by the effect since they can melee back.
Also, target the Wizard with conditions. A Daze will force the Wizard to either give up the illusion, or use a Minor Action to maintain it, hence, giving foes a chance to escape. Stunning the Wizard is perfect, but most monsters do not stun.
Finally, many of the creatures that escape (and even the ones that do not escape, but have ranged attacks) should focus their attacks on the Wizard. An unconscious Wizard cannot sustain this power.
I really dislike this power, not because of how potent it is. I dislike it because it's illogical. A foe gets immobilized because it wants to seize treasure. WT? If the foe is so enamored by treasure, it shouldn't get any actions, not be immobilized. And how about Oozes? Why would they be enamored by treasure? The power is just badly designed all around IMO.
WotC really horked up illusions in 4E. A high percentage of the Illusion spells are nonsensical or are too potent or have easy ways to overcome or whatever. It's like they put the Apprentice Designer on Illusions and didn't check his work.
Well, no. You explicitly get to attack as part of the Sustain. It's written into the spell text. So all of that other stuff you wrote doesn't apply.
I'm the DM
This combo has recently just arrived in my game, so right now I'm playing it out and allowing it as is. My wizard player has craft magic item, and so there is no reason he cannot have the items...nor do I consider adventurer's vault a big splatbook, the core books have way too few magic items.
Last time I used a solo I put with it a deva legionaire (MM2). The deva has the ability to take a condition from an ally. My solo razor hydra got the sleep combo of death, and the deva took it. The deva was coup de graced into nothingness, but it let the hydra survive the fight.
The biggest part of the combo is actually the earthroot staff, which provides a -3 saving throw penalty...and that's without the orb. On the flip side it doesn't do any critical damage, which we are starting to notice is actually a major aspect for a wizard, who has lots of attacks and tends to crit frequently.
I don't think you're reading it correctly. It's "sustain minor: the zone persists. When you sustain the power, you can repeat the attack as a minor action". The minor action to repeat the attack is in addition to the minor action used for the sustain. If it were the same action, it would say so.
And to KarinsDad re: oozes:
The "treasure" and "avarice" bits are all just fluff text. The mechanics are simply that it's an illusion that pulls and potentially immobilizes creatures. The illusion itself could just as easily be a huge slab of rotting meat. So you can play it two ways:
1. All oozes have blindsight and tremorsense anyway, so you could just rule that they're not generally fooled by illusions.
2. You could allow it if the player can describe an illusion that would be enticing to the creatures affected.
Maybe it's because I mostly ignore flavor text and even names of powers, but I don't really see a big problem. I think it'd be a lot less satisfying to create an "illusionist" build and then gimp it versus a wide variety of creatures.
keterys
First Post
Everything has a reason to want to go somewhere - usually it might be to attack a PC, but maybe it's giving them a vision that the PC is over there. And extra juicy. And vulnerable. Or maybe it's something to mate with. Or that one color of prismatic puce they can't resist.
Remember that by core rules (Player's Handbook, early on in the power section) the flavor text is purely flavor text and may be completely replaced at the whim of the player with anything else appropriate. Doing so is not only a good idea in some cases, but can make the game more fun.
Remember that by core rules (Player's Handbook, early on in the power section) the flavor text is purely flavor text and may be completely replaced at the whim of the player with anything else appropriate. Doing so is not only a good idea in some cases, but can make the game more fun.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Personally, I would tie ongoing effects to the implement that was actually used to cast the spell. So I wouldn't let the Orb and the Earthroot Staff stack.
But that might just be a fine houserule.
