Visions of Avarice trivializes melee encounters?

I have reviewed both Stinking Cloud and Grasp of The Grave. Both of these spells are exactly the level of power I would expect from a 5th level daily.
Hmm, Grasp of the Grave and Stinking Cloud are no less powerful than Visions of Averice when you take everything into account:

GotG has a 5x5 area which is easily increased to 7x7 with enlarge spell (VoA cannot be enlarged). Like VoA it targets enemies only. It automatically does 1d10+int necrotic damage and dazes the target, plus does 5 necrotic damage and continues to keep the target dazed so long as he is in the area or when he enters the area (VoA does no direct damage and immobilises targets which is more effective against melee targets but less effective against ranged targets). GotG lasts for an entire enoucnter without sustaining (VoA requires a minor action to sustain and another minor to repeat the attack against enemies which save, leaving the wizard with one standard action per round - effectively dazed himself).

Stinking Cloud has a 5x5 area which is easily increased to 7x7 with enlarge spell (VoA canot be enlarged). It does 1d10+int poison damage on a hit and continues to do 1d10+Int poison damage to any creature starting within or entering the zone (VoA does no direct damage). Although it does not hinder movement, SC blocks line of sight, rendering many ranged attackers within or beyond the cloud ineffective. It requires a minor action to sustain but does damage automatically thereafter (VoA minor to sustain). SC can be moved up to 6 squares as a move action (VoA cannot move and takes a second minor action, effectively a move action, to repeat the pull attack).

Both spells inflict damage directly, take fewer actions to sustain and can easily have a wide area of effect. GotG takes no effort to sustain and dazes targets automatically (VoA requires a hit roll to pull and immobilise), and SC can be moved if an enemy flees the area and does more damage than GotG or VoA. Which of the three spells is most effective at any given moment depends significantly on the circumstances of the encounter, but certainly not on one spell being inherently more potent than the others.

Both of them have a burst radius consistent with other daily powers across multiple classes. What I also like about these two powers is that keeping enemies (even dazed ones) in the zone requires more strategy, coordination, and effort from the party. While both of these powers may initially catch any number of foes within their zones, determined creatures can escape within a round or two. If the party wants to get them back into the zone they will have to find another way to do so.

My solution will probably be to reduce the range of the burst. It's really the only aspect of the power that is clearly out of line with the other daily powers of this level. The fact that it makes other wizard powers more attractive in some situations probably means it's the right move.
Reducing the range of the burst will make the spell significantly less effective. Remember that the outer region of the burst only applies a pull efect on a hit, as anyone caught at burst 5 range, when pulled 3 squares, will be outside the burst 1 immobilise zone. What you are looking at is an effective burst 4 for pulling and immobilising, which is no better than a readily available burst 3 on the other two powers (with one very useful feat) for sustainable damage and other features. And even if your wizard can't enlarge the other spells, is a 2 square increase in radius not a fair exchange for a lack of damage and increased effort required to sustain the power?
 

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VoA canot be enlarged

It can be enlarged a bit. If you use an Architect's Staff to add squares to the initial 1 square zone, the burst will be larger since the origin for the burst is that zone. This also creates a larger zone for immobilizing.

Also, you can use VoA to get combat advantage with Phantom Echoes on many enemies each round.

The compendium says that VoA burst is an at-will power, so if that is true it would count for things like White Lotus feats.
 

1) Heal checks. If there are two adjacent enemies within the effect, one can make a heal check on the other to grant a save vs. immobilized, and then the other guy (if he makes his save) can immediately move out. I've even had a ranged enemy voluntarily walk into the central square so that he's always available for heal checks, and if no one needs to be released, he can just sit there and shoot.

Can you hook me up with a page # to reference this at? I have a player with this power in my game (I don't see much harm from its two uses so far) - but I was not aware you could use a heal check in such a way... something I am very much looking forward to using in my game tomorrow (including vs this spell perhaps, hehe).

I agree with much of what has been said regarding ways to counter it - spreading out mobs, mixing artillery etc in there... but that's all easy for me as I try to do them anyway (keep things mixed up and changing/dynamic) - it's just good encounter building I think.
 

Granting a saving throw with the heal skill

D&D Compendium said:
Grant a Saving Throw: Make a DC 15 Heal check. If you succeed, an adjacent ally can immediately make a saving throw, or the ally gets a +2 bonus to a saving throw at the end of his or her next turn.

I believe that it takes a standard action to use it in this way. It's a great things for minions to do to help out their boss who has been dazed, immobilized, or afflicted with some other nasty thing. I don't know the page number, but this is from the skill section in the PHB.
 

I'm not even sure you need to house rule this one. The rules for delay specifically state that harmful effects are saved after you act:

End Harmful Effects after You Act: After you return to the initiative order and take your actions, end effects that last until the end of your turn and that are harmful to you. For example, if an enemy weakened you until the end of your next turn, the weakened

I could be wrong but I thought a sidebar stated this applied to both ready and delay actions.

I believe this quote is about delaying, not readied actions. Its debatable if you can make readied actions with triggers that are other than enemy actions, but even that can be gotten around by saying that you trigger an action to occur when any enemy does anything.
 

Here it is:
PH1 Page 185 said:
First Aid: Standard action.
[...]
* Grant a Saving Throw: Make a DC 15 Heal check. If you succeed, an adjacent ally can immediately make a saving throw, or the ally gets a +2 bonus to a saving throw at the end of his or her next turn.
 

Thanks for the heal check references!

So yea, right there with the Heal check... duh. I thought maybe this came elsewhere (different book) as I always assumed (falsely it seems) that the Heal check used in such a fashion was for Death Saves (only). That's what I get for not going over the skills more often.

Thanks again all (sorry to side-track the discussion a hair) ;)
 


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