Potential Problems In A New AD&D Campaign

[green slime]

In general, I have found that it is more advantageous to be a multiclassed whatever than a human whatever. Given how the experience points work the amount of experience it takes to get to be a 10th level whatever you can be an elven 9/9. If level limits are removed, and a game reaches those levels, that becomes an issue. Giving humans a 10% bonus to experience delays this effect by about a level since the difference between 200,000 and 220,000 experience is really negligible.

I'd disagree. A single classed human at levels under 10 had in general terms single level advantage over a two-classed character, and a two level advantage over a triple-classed character. This definitely mattered in the first three levels. Multiclassed characters suffer from lack of hit points in those first levels (as they did in general, but it was most obvious in the first levels), and because of the slow progress, also suffered from lower Thac0. Of course, once the levels involved where 4 or greater, the problem was less obvious.

Then after reaching name level, if the limits are removed, the humans will start levelling twice as fast.

Another distinct advantage for humans which few players took advantage of, was dual classing.

 

[green slime]

Saw your additional post on dragonsfoot, but elected to comment on it here in ENWorld.

Knowing a little about your campaign world, I'd make a few suggestions: The class limitations are there IMO to provide flavour/direction for a race/people/culture. I'm all for variants of these, and have even done so in my 3.x campaign. So Elves have access to certain base classes, and humans others.3.x has such a large plethora of base classes, this is easily done.

Level limits, as I think I've made clear, are by 1e raw, far too limiting. There are various options, primarily from UA.

My suggestion would be to look at some of the inspirational classes from 3.x, and adapt them to your campaign. You have after all, created several distinct races for your campaign, so it can't be too difficult to create a new class or three. Also consider that the classes in 1e are a lot simpler. I'd be interested in seeing some of them in action.

So, for the Dwarven tecnocrats could have access to a artificer variant. Perhaps someone has already produced a 1e/2e variant you could swipe? Dwarven Clerics also have access to magic.

The elves are more easily accomodated. I allowed Ranger multiclassing and access to the Bard class to inspire the more woodsy celtic feel myself in my 1e campaign.

 

[Thanael]

So, SHARK, are youplaying 1E or 2E AD&D? Or a mix? What (kind of) setting?

 

[Particle_Man]

Another distinct advantage for humans which few players took advantage of, was dual classing.

Well, maybe less "foolishly didn't take advantage of" than "unable to get the really really high ability scores necessary to take advantage of."

 

[slwoyach]

Greetings!

(1) Race-based limitations on character classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

Some class limitations should remain for flavor purposes. Few things in 3e get my boxers in a bunch quite like a dwarven wizard. Blasphemy!

(2) Race-based limitations on Level Advancement of particular classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

This is trickier. Level limitations are horrible. In games that go over a certain level it makes demihumans unplayable and in low level games it does nothing to fix the balance issue between humans and demihumans. Basically it is complete fail in every way. A better fix would be to remove them and make humans better. I don't think the 10% experience bump suggested is enough though. Given the choice of having elven abilities or a 10% bump I'll take the elf any day. A good balance might be +1 to all saves. That I'd think about. Or you could pick up a 3e trick and give an LA of +1 to all demihumans. It works far better under the 2e experience system than it ever did in 3e.

 

[SHARK]

So, SHARK, are youplaying 1E or 2E AD&D? Or a mix? What (kind of) setting?

Greetings!

Well, I am beginning a AD&D campaign, which is set within my world of Thandor--the campaign world that I have worked on for over 20 years...since the last time I played AD&D! *LOL* The campaign world has since supported campaigns using Rolemaster, 3.0 D&D, and 3.5E D&D. Now, I have decided to return to using the *Old School* system of AD&D.--which feels very strange and deja-vu like, because that's where it all began, so many years ago...*LOL*

The World of Thandor is a huge world, with a good number of enormous continents. The world has savage tribes of barbarians, as well as hordes of beastmen, orcs, and other brutal humanoids. While much of the world is savage and dark wilderness, there are regions that have been long established, and fortified bases of civilization, for humans, as well as sophisticated kingdoms and realms of other races, such as elves and dwarves, but also wolf-men, lion-men, and elephant-men. Perhaps the most powerful culture in the western continent is the ancient Vallorean Empire, a vast empire of humans that have established such an awesome empire built on the might of powerful magic, and legions of mighty and valiant soldiers. While sophisticated and civilized, the Valloreans have throughout their history used their greatest advantage in conquering other lands, and in defending everything within the empire--a vast, disciplined army of hundreds of thousands of soldiers trained in legions, and employing an unrelenting strategy of overwhelming any opposition, and proceeding to whenever necessary, uprooting and annihilating entire cities, putting enemy leadership to the sword, and the relentless imposition of the Vallorean religion, language, law, and culture, so as over a course of decades and even centuries, to annihilate not only the enemy culture, but to convert whole populations into embracing the Vallorean Way.

The World of Thandor also has a vast range of monsters, powerful dragons, uber-wicked vampire lords, and vast empires of savage beastmen ruled by elite castes of humans that have long mixed with demons and other terrible, ancient monsters, who serve a pantheon of dark, evil gods, and seek to subjugate all within their grasp to a dark and wicked dominion.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[SHARK]

Saw your additional post on dragonsfoot, but elected to comment on it here in ENWorld.

Knowing a little about your campaign world, I'd make a few suggestions: The class limitations are there IMO to provide flavour/direction for a race/people/culture. I'm all for variants of these, and have even done so in my 3.x campaign. So Elves have access to certain base classes, and humans others.3.x has such a large plethora of base classes, this is easily done.

Level limits, as I think I've made clear, are by 1e raw, far too limiting. There are various options, primarily from UA.

My suggestion would be to look at some of the inspirational classes from 3.x, and adapt them to your campaign. You have after all, created several distinct races for your campaign, so it can't be too difficult to create a new class or three. Also consider that the classes in 1e are a lot simpler. I'd be interested in seeing some of them in action.

So, for the Dwarven tecnocrats could have access to a artificer variant. Perhaps someone has already produced a 1e/2e variant you could swipe? Dwarven Clerics also have access to magic.

The elves are more easily accomodated. I allowed Ranger multiclassing and access to the Bard class to inspire the more woodsy celtic feel myself in my 1e campaign.

Greetings!

Hail Greenslime! How are you my friend? Yes, I like your suggestions very much. Lots to ponder and think about. I am thinking of starting a PBP AD&D game here...would you be interested?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[SHARK]

Some class limitations should remain for flavor purposes. Few things in 3e get my boxers in a bunch quite like a dwarven wizard. Blasphemy!



This is trickier. Level limitations are horrible. In games that go over a certain level it makes demihumans unplayable and in low level games it does nothing to fix the balance issue between humans and demihumans. Basically it is complete fail in every way. A better fix would be to remove them and make humans better. I don't think the 10% experience bump suggested is enough though. Given the choice of having elven abilities or a 10% bump I'll take the elf any day. A good balance might be +1 to all saves. That I'd think about. Or you could pick up a 3e trick and give an LA of +1 to all demihumans. It works far better under the 2e experience system than it ever did in 3e.

Greetings!

That, too, is some good arguments, my friend. You make some excellent points. +1 to all saves for humans. That's pretty neat.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[green slime]

Greetings!

Hail Greenslime! How are you my friend? Yes, I like your suggestions very much. Lots to ponder and think about. I am thinking of starting a PBP AD&D game here...would you be interested?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Sign me up! I'll be first in line!

 

[Thanael]

So, this sounds like a more or less typical fantasy world. So did you have archetypical race/class combinations when running under one of the other rulesets? This restriction is one thing among many which stands out in AD&D, the rules imply a certain setting fluff. I.e. no halfling or dwarf mages, elves are woodsy, etc. This imho is one of the charms of AD&D, all the setting fluff hardwired into the rules-set. It is of course best represented when playing in the GReyhawk campaign, where many of those artifacts are from, and where you can meet the wizards, who have so many spells named after them. Read a bit of Vance before playing.

You still didn't answer if you intend to play 1E AD&D or 2E AD&D, there is a difference you know. That said I'd advise to play a hybrid of both.