Can leaders...do damage?

[Stalker0]

Its an interesting argument I was having with a friend of mine. So far in our experience, all of the core roles seem to be able to put out good damage...with the exception of the leaders.

Striker - Of course
Defender - Fighter - Lots of multi attack powers with high W's lets him put out respectable damage time and time again.
Controller - Wizard - Wizards get lots of crits due to their area effects, and several of their dailies are actually very strikerish in nature (flaming sphere, bigby's icy grasp).

The core cleric though...he's got some buffs but I've never seen him put out the big pain. Nada for the other leaders, bards and shamans and even warlords (though I'm curious to hear more about warlords as I figured if any of the leaders were high damage it would be the warlord).

Now I recognize by its nature the leader is the most selfless of classes, and you can always chalk up some of their damage to the buffs they give others, but since we have seen all the other roles bust out the damage it seems strange to leave the leaders out. Are we wrong...can some of the leaders bust out the big damage as well and we just haven't seen it?

 

[Flipguarder]

clerics just do very little damage. I dont think its a role thing, I think its a class thing.

Earth strength wardens do very little too, but they are defenders/controllers so Im fairly ok with it

 

[ilmoin]

Warlords aren't so bad, especially if you upgrade their weapons. They won't keep up with a striker, but with 2[W] encounters and 3[W] dailies they do just fine with a Fullblade or a Greatspear. Go Bravura Warlord to push this as far as it'll go.

 

[Victim]

Clerics can put out good damage via area attacks. Two clerics PPs have selective Burst 8s for 3d8, and they have some other Close or Area attacks. They're not doing much concentrated damage, but in total that can be lots of damage.

 

[The Human Target]

Every attack the strikers, controllers, and defenders make after being healed and buffed is Leader damage.

 

[keterys]

Well, Righteous Rage of Tempus Str clerics wielding vicious executioner axes or whatever certainly _can_ deal damage, though perhaps not up to the standards of a tempest fighter or ranger.

My inspiring warlord uses a greatspear to do very good damage with his attacks and inspired belligerence, warlord strike, war of attrition, and guileful switch are tremendous damage boosts. It's absurd how fast something dies when you're dealing +9 damage per hit against it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It depends all on the weapon they use.

My Dragonborn Warlord armed with a Bastard Sword deals considerable damage.
The Dwarven Cleric with a Mordenkrad is even worse, his own "mini-striker".

 

[Falling Icicle]

Every class can do damage, strikers just do a bit extra thanks to their class feature.

 

[tiornys]

It also depends on how you define "Leader doing damage". If I spend my standard action and the result is 5 basic attacks at +5 to hit and +5 to damage, does it matter that only one of the basic attacks was mine? If I spend my standard action on an at-will attack that does 1[W]+stat+stat damage (competitive with Sly Flourish and the Barbarian +dX at-wills), does it matter that I didn't actually make an attack roll? If I spend my standard action adding 4 enemies to the close burst attack that the Paladin makes with his standard action, how much damage was my standard action worth?

And those are easy examples. Harder examples start asking how much damage is added when you give the striker a +5 bonus to attacks for a turn, or when you give the party +5 to attacks for a turn, etc.

t~

 

[Lord Ernie]

I'm playing an elven laser cleric (multi-class Invoker for more laser goodness), level 5 now, and I've been noticing more or less the same thing. My healing prowess leaves our Taclord in the dust, and our DM was getting more or less hopeless after I busted out the Beacon of Hope + Sacred Ground combo last session (healing all bloodied allies in the zone 12 HP per round). That same battle saw our wizard doing tons and tons of damage with Stinking Cloud and enlarged Thunderwave to have the ultimate damage vs. healing comparison.

My damage, however, ranges between 8-15 damage per hit. Not bad, but certainly not what our rogue hands out (Sly Flourish for 12-39 damage with CA). Still, I deal considerably more damage than our fighter, although that might be because he's got a very defensive S&B build. He's actually requested I take a look at his character and see if I can boost his damage somewhat.