Game broke down over Pinning Strike

[Flipguarder]

Description is a two-edged sword though. Let's say I'm the player, and I have to explain why the dragon is still pinned. Well what if I say:
"Obviously, it's pinned because I stabbed my spear through its wing, nailing it to the ground."

Is the onus now on the DM to explain why the dragon doesn't take additional damage and penalties to flight?

yeah but:

1. Dragon's wings don't bleed profusely.
2. one hole is not near enough damage to impair its flight.

pretty simple if you ask me. If a DM can't solve that issue most of the time, I'd say its his fault.

Now if the player says:

"The Dragon can't move because I pierced his skull with my spear and ruined the part of his brain that controls movement."

thats a different issue.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Now if the player says:

"The Dragon can't move because I pierced his skull with my spear and ruined the part of his brain that controls movement."

thats a different issue.

I hope this is not serious, especially when the dragon is at a high level of hit points.

I think asking the character to justify a power's working in the game is a bit odd, to say the least. If the group wants to do freeform, then that is cool, but 4E is not freeform.

I do agree the power is giving a big benefit, but there are ways around it, such as bull rush and he like, which should be pretty easy to pull off.

 

[keterys]

Bull Rush doesn't actually get around the power for dwarves, or PCs who have some other way to reduce pushes by 1 (stance, item, warlord power, etc). Also for many creatures it really doesn't work because it's based on a stat they don't necessarily use (Str attack) and doesn't necessarily scale. The normal attacks of monsters work out to Level + 1 to Level + 7 in general, magically scaling as if they had enhancement, item, power, feat, etc bonuses wrapped in without worrying about. Not so much their Strength checks, which might be good (certain beefy monsters) but might be atrocious.

 

[Herschel]

I rule it like a "grab" power as a precident. You have to "maintain" the pin. It's the counter moves of the game: an action has an opposite reaction. It's why my Swordmage LOVES his teleport powers. "Yeah, go ahead and grab me, I'll be out next turn anyway and my buddies are coming for you too."

 

[IanB]

I'm not sure bull rushing will help, unless you also ruled that the shift to follow was optional.

In any case, the player had it right. The immobilize persists even with the fighter being stunned. Ruling otherwise makes stunning more powerful, which I would argue is in the long run probably a more deleterious choice. It opens up a whole pandora's box of other interactions of abilities with stunning, I expect.

 

[Saeviomagy]

IMO, the solution is to remove stunning from the game. Better all round really.

 

[keterys]

Frightful Presence doing a push 2, immobilize and/or daze would be more fun, right?

 

[eriktheguy]

The dragon should not have to bull rush to cancel it. It also means that dwarfs would be able to pin indefinitely anyways. Immobilized with no save, and no escape clause short of 'kill the fighter' is broken. Especially if the monster is a solo. But then this is a 'should this be a rule' issue and not a 'who was right issue'.
If you want to talk about who was right, the player was right by RAW, but you as the DM were right because you are the DM. You have the power to make that call.
I know where you are coming from though. When players in my campaigns don't like my rulings, they let me know. Sometimes I take their position into consideration, and sometimes I don't. Rules arguments can definitely ruin a session though.
I think the problem you have encountered here is that the player used a broken power to ruin your encounter, and you tried to fight rules with logic. I would certainly rule that the power requires the player to be able to continue pinning the dragon each round that he uses it. If the player is stunned, the dragon is free. Heck, by the rules the player would continue to pin the dragon even if someone hit him with a sleep spell.

EDIT: Seriously, he immobilized your solo for the entire encounter. That isn't right.

 

[Starfox]

Powers do what powers do. Some are situational (like this one) and work great in certain cases and are almost useless in others.

 

[fissionessence]

We don't let something silly like a rule get in the way of good DMing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of my DMs ruled that the dragon escaped based on the description of the scenario.

Then again, I'm also not surprised when one of my DMs rules something in my favor based on the situation.

Sometimes good DMing means letting players' powers work the way the expect them to . . . as long as their expectations are drawn from the rules of the game, and they're not trying to powergame. A player playing and building his character honestly (that is, not powergaming), and who is familiar with the rules shouldn't be punished just because certain circumstances seem to suspend a little disbelief. Just come up with an explanation—or make the player do it—let the guy have his power, and move on.

If you have an issue with your player's powers, take care of it between sessions. Give him or her the chance to swap powers if your modification leaves a bad taste in his or her mouth.

~ fissionessence