New PH3 Class....The Psion!

[Stalker0]

That is odd. Wasn't psionics originally magic in 3E only to be changed to something different cause no one liked the idea of magic/psionics transparency?
Or did I imagine that?

In 3.5 the game offered 3 ways to handle psionics.

The default however was magic/psionic transparancy. Dispel magic dispelled psionics, knowledge psionics worked like knowledge arcane....etc.

 

[gribble]

I am going to be the voice of discontent.

I actually kind of agree. Just built a test Psion, and I didn't swap out my 1st-3rd level at-will powers until I hit Epic (23rd) level. Most of the higher heroic and paragon at-will just don't seem that much better than the basic at-wills, and the 4-point augments certainly don't seem better than using the 2 point augments on the lower level powers twice per encounter.

Of course, I was just doing it very quickly, and will admit to not going through the powers with a fine-toothed comb but it certainly raised balance alarm bells for me...

Mods, feel free to cut the below if it's too spoilerific...

Here's probably the worst example I picked up on:
Mind Thrust (lvl 1 at-will) vs. Psychic Brand (lvl 17 at-will).

Unaugmented, Psychic Brand has longer range (20 vs 10) and a rider effect (target can't benefit from concealment or total concealment until the end of your next turn). I'll admit that situationally it's very good, but a lot of the time the effect will be the same.
With the 1 PP augments, both do the same, except with Psychic Brand the target grants combat advantage, Mind Thrust the target takes a penalty to Will equal to your Cha mod (both until the end of your next turn). I'd argue there are situations where either could be better, so probably balanced.
The kicker is the high cost augments (4 PP for Psychic Brand, 2 PP for Mind Thrust). Both do the same damage, except with Psychic Brand the target cannot benefit from concealment or total concealment and gains vulnerability to all damage equal to your Cha mod until the end of your next turn. Mind Thrust gives the target a penalty to all defenses equal to your Cha mod.

Bearing in mind you'll be able to use the augmented Mind Thrust twice as often as Psychic Brand, I know which power I'd rather have. I can see there are some circumstances under which Psychic Brand is better than Mind Thrust, but most of the time I think the latter will be more useful.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I also don't like classes that break the mold. D&D finally has a much-needed standardized system for class powers and features. It helps quite a bit when helping people to learn the game, if everyone uses basically the same rules.

Wow, can I not get behind this. I agree that the bulk of classes should follow the standardized system 100%, and most of them do. But to say that there should never be classes that diverge a bit? That's remarkably limiting. It limits the designers who may have cool ideas, and it limits players who may want to color outside the lines a bit.

I wouldn't want a 4E class that completely ignores the system, but one that steps outside of it to the extent that the psion does? Yes, please, even if I never wind up playing one.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Psionics is really magic; according to the character builder, being a psion qualifies you for wizard paragon paths. A little odd.

I don't think so, I thought for a short period of time that it qualified me for Warlock PP, but then I noticed i accidently had pact initiate, when I got rid of it all i had was psion ones and race ones.

 

[Piratecat]

I don't think so, I thought for a short period of time that it qualified me for Warlock PP, but then I noticed i accidently had pact initiate, when I got rid of it all i had was psion ones and race ones.

Hmm. It was an auto-built character and I didn't check the feats. That might have been why.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I just got home from doing some stuff for school (getting transcripts). Can someone give a quick expression of how it feels. I am just about to start looking through, but you guys have been looking at it longer. So would fans of 3.5 fluff of Psionics like it?

I've only barely skimmed it over once, but my initial thought is that the system is a hybrid of 4e's power system and 3.5's psionics system.

The crystal motif is mostly gone, replaced with orbs. They did say you can make your orbs multifaceted crystals in appearance.

Would fans of the 3.5 fluff like the new system? I'm kind of on the fence about that. It loses a lot of pseudoscience, but seems more fantastic. The lack of crystals is the only thing that bugs me, but that can be a fluff thing.

*shrugs*

Now, if I can only translate Malhavoc's Crystal Proselyte PrC to 4e...

 

[Rechan]

Was the augment/pp system for Psionics always present through the editions? Anyone know if it was done just to be different from magic, or if there was a specific reason for it?

I am just curious why Psionics in D&D has always been associated with the PP/augment thing. I can't really think of the 'augment' eever popping up in fiction.

 

[Rechan]

Is it me, or is the psion going to get boring? Because you only get 3 powers an dyour dailies.

I mean, sure, you can augment the at wills, but that's basically like having three tricfks and those three tricks just get m more powerful the more you pump into it. It stil means that your options in a fight.

 

[gribble]

I agree with your theory and it's conclusion. It certainly creates large hassle for legitimate consumers.

And does little to stop dedicated pirates. As someone has pointed out, anyone with access to the article also has access to the compendium, and anyone with access to the compendium has the ability to create a pirateable complete document from the compendium.

I don't think it'll be long till it turns up on the torrent sites, and it just inconveniences those of us with subscriptions. Lose/lose.

 

[Leatherhead]

Wow, can I not get behind this. I agree that the bulk of classes should follow the standardized system 100%, and most of them do. But to say that there should never be classes that diverge a bit? That's remarkably limiting. It limits the designers who may have cool ideas, and it limits players who may want to color outside the lines a bit.

I wouldn't want a 4E class that completely ignores the system, but one that steps outside of it to the extent that the psion does? Yes, please, even if I never wind up playing one.

Limitations are not a bad thing. They promote consistency and ease of use. Just think of the new guy trying to learn 4E. Having multiple subsystems creates confusion and raises the perceived entry level. Limitations also promote balance. While it is not impossible to balance with different rules, it tends to create more imbalances and more perceived imbalances (The "Whoa, I can't do anything like that!" factor)

The psion is not a minor divergence. It completely removes a major core aspect of classes (encounter attack powers), and introduces a brand new mechanic with it's own resource tracking. There are feats and mechanics that just don't work without encounter powers. For example, multiclassing is going to be quite awkard with a psion.

The monk, on the other hand, is a minor divergence. It has all of the core mechanics the other classes have, while having it's own unique ones.