Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Caliber]

I think I agree with Morrus here. Prejudging such a large group of people seems highly offensive to me; I'd be hard pressed to tolerate that kind of thing. It seems like saying "I have met people who are asses in the past, so I refuse to associate with people and face the potential risk of them being asses".

 

[Bumbles]

Well, that's how I see it anyway. YMMV.

Seems a substantially correct interpretation to me. So I think our mileage is within the standard deviation.

 

[Caliber]

That's absurd, and a misrepresentation (or misunderstanding). One has no control over when it rains.

One has probably a similar amount of control over the assery of someone else once they've had a few, I would think.

 

[Fifth Element]

You can call it whatever you want. But you know if you and your significant other are invited to a formal dinner at another couple's home, it's darn likely it would be a bad idea to pick your nose, loudly fart, or attend with obviously dirty and smelly clothing. You can call those rules, guidelines, or a turtle. But we both know they are "things" which apply to that situation baring something specifically going against them (like instead of a formal dinner it's the annual nose picking farting and smelly cloth wearing dinner).

And of course, we're not discussing such things, or at least I'm not. My original objection was to the idea that one cannot decline an invitation on such reason as discussed here, that there was apparently a rule that dictated this. But my broader objection is that except for very broad, general guidelines, there are no real "rules" of hospitality, so specific that you can say one's reason for declining an invitation is inhospitable.

 

[Mistwell]

Dude, 1922 is when my grandfather was born. I'm going to have to refuse to behave as if it's 1922. What does that book say about internet forum etiquette, I wonder?

The Emily Post Institute offers etiquette advice and manners advice

I could link you to a dozen etiquette sources. Are you really and honestly disputing there are rules of etiquette? If so, before answering, ask a female in your life (wife, girlfriend, sister, mother, whatever) if they agree with you. Cause I am willing to bet they know exactly what I am talking about.

Declining an invitation is not inherently rude or inhospitable, regardless of your reason.

Yeah, we disagree on this. You can get away with it a few times, but if you always refuse an invitation from close friends because of the potential someone might possibly in some unlikely manner become drunk, you're being rude to your close friends.

Lets be real clear - I am not a big fan of my in-laws and will try and refuse an invitation to visit sometimes. But I know I am being a bit rude. And, my situation is extremely common, to the point where it is a running joke in our society concerning visiting in-laws.

That's the specific claim I was disputing: that potential problems are not enough to refuse to attend. You apparently see this as a rule of "our" society. Demonstrating my point above, as a mature, well-adjusted member of society I disagree that it is a rule. Who's right?

I am

Or is New Brunswick different enough from California that we can't be directly compared? I could ask my brother, who was raised in NB but lives in CA, and had little trouble adjusting.


What is his region? I can't tell from his (her?) profile.

I am pretty sure it's even more strict in New Brunswick than here in California.

You seem to be saying there are no rules of manners where you live. I think you're just not aware of them, but they are there, and they apply to you, and probably others noticed you're not following them and are just politely not mentioning it to you.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

That's absurd, and a misrepresentation (or misunderstanding). One has no control over when it rains.

So? One has no control over whether I get drunk, either.

You can refuse to enter the environment (where I might get drunk and disruptive to the game), just as you can refuse to enter the environment (where it might rain and disrupt your picnic).

If you have reason to believe I (or someone else) might get drunk and disrupt the game (such as prior experience with me), refusing to enter the environment is reasonable. If you have reason to believe it might rain (such as threatening clouds), refusing to enter the environment is reasonable.

But refusal to enter either environment because X has occurred at some time in the past, or X might occur at some time in the future, is damned peculiar.

Pretty straightforward parallel, I thought. Hope this helps.

 

[Bumbles]

That's absurd, and a misrepresentation (or misunderstanding). One has no control over when it rains.

Indeed. Besides, I'd have no problem with a person who carried an umbrella with them, and I know some people who do that every day. And yesterday I wish I had made the choice. Fortunately, I'm not made entirely of sugar.

 

[Mistwell]

And of course, we're not discussing such things, or at least I'm not. My original objection was to the idea that one cannot decline an invitation on such reason as discussed here, that there was apparently a rule that dictated this. But my broader objection is that except for very broad, general guidelines, there are no real "rules" of hospitality, so specific that you can say one's reason for declining an invitation is inhospitable.

If you as a close friend of mine invited me to your house and I said "No, because you are ugly, smelly, and your significant other is a female dog, and I fear lightening will strike your house while I am there as punishment for your disgustingness" I feel pretty certain you would think my reason for declining your invitation was inhospitable. Can we please not pretend there are no bad reasons for declining an invitation? There are bad reasons. We debate if THIS is one of those bad reasons, but it's not really debatable that there are NO bad reasons.

 

[the Jester]

I feel that Bumbles' position is fundamentally unreasonable and prejudiced. On the other hand, I think Mistwell's position that one is obligated to accept an invitation is idiotic and outdated.

Yes, there are "rules of etiquette," but those are really the opinions of a few snooty people about what makes polite society. The underlying behavioral rules in a given society are much more important. Who cares if you use your tea spoon for your soup? It's improper etiquette but largely meaningless. On the other hand, everyone in my cultural group knows that stealing is bad. If you steal from someone, you'll generally feel the wrongness of it as you do it. Do you feel wrongness when you spread butter with a steak knife?

My take on it is- Bumbles, decline the invitations to game with those-who-might-drink; you are certainly within your rights. Especially if it comes out why you are declining, though, don't be surprised if you aren't invited anymore. The people-that-might-drink probably won't like it very much once they realize how harshly and unfairly you are judging them.

 

[Bumbles]

My take on it is- Bumbles, decline the invitations to game with those-who-might-drink; you are certainly within your rights. Especially if it comes out why you are declining, though, don't be surprised if you aren't invited anymore. The people-that-might-drink probably won't like it very much once they realize how harshly and unfairly you are judging them.

I'd rather live with people misjudging me than going along with things I didn't enjoy, but rather found highly distressing. I spent far too long being unhappy to want to go back to that way of behavior. And Annie's Mailbox seems to agree with me in principle, even regards to the approval of one's own mother*. Standing up for myself was hard, but I learned to do it.

So yeah, I'll stick with my way. It's not harsh, it's not unfair, it's not judging anything except the problems drinking can cause. If you apply that to a judgment of yourself, I think I'm limited in my ability to change your mind.

Certainly seems to be the case in this thread.

*Note, I don't agree with everything said in the column's, sometimes I don't.