Immediate Reaction Race Condition

[Infiniti2000]

I've a ranger with the 2nd level Utility power Yield Ground. Three bad guys moved up to me, the first two readying an attack until the third got into position, and then all attacked. After the first hit, I activated Yield Ground. Do the 2nd and 3rd attacks occur before or after Yield Ground? They're all immediate reactions. Is the different if the bad guys readied on their comrade moving into position vs. attacking?

 

[Nytmare]

My grasp of readied action cheese is a little shakey, but I'm pretty sure that stacked chains of readied actions happen in the existing initiative order, no?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I would say so, too, but the Yield Ground power is not stacked in an initiative order. If the bad guys are A, B, and C and they act in order, then when C moves up (or attacks), A and then B will trigger their readied actions. In what order will my Yield Ground immediate reaction occur?

 

[Trebor62]

I don't think A and B have readied legal readied actions. A readied action is an immediate reaction which in turn is triggered by an enemy action (PHB1 291). A and B are not enemies of C therefore C cannot serve as a trigger for A and B. Only the Ranger or another PC could do that.

Good Luck

 

[Nytmare]

I would say so, too, but the Yield Ground power is not stacked in an initiative order. If the bad guys are A, B, and C and they act in order, then when C moves up (or attacks), A and then B will trigger their readied actions. In what order will my Yield Ground immediate reaction occur?

My assumption would be that your Yield Ground is stacked in with A and B's actions. If the initiative order was A,B,C,You then the order would be:

• C moves and triggers A and B
• C finishes it's move
• A attacks and triggers Yield Ground
• B can't attack cause you're not there
• C can't attack cause you're not there and it finished it's move action already

Or, if A and B trigger off of C's attack

• C attacks which triggers A, B, and Yield Ground
• A attacks
• B attacks
• You yield ground to C's attack

Likewise if your init placed you at the top of the initiative order and A and B triggered off of C's attack the chain would be:

• C attacks which triggers Yield Ground, A, and B
• You yield ground to C's attack
• A and B can't attack you cause you're no longer in range

Are there any specifications out there as to what you're allowed to ready for yet? If you ready on someone moving, are you readying on them moving any single square, or for them to complete a move action?

 

[Mouseferatu]

I don't think A and B have readied legal readied actions. A readied action is an immediate reaction which in turn is triggered by an enemy action (PHB1 291). A and B are not enemies of C therefore C cannot serve as a trigger for A and B. Only the Ranger or another PC could do that.

Nope. Readied actions can be in response to an enemy's action, but they don't have to be. You can ready an action with more or less any definable, observable trigger.

 

[Trebor62]

Nope. Readied actions can be in response to an enemy's action, but they don't have to be. You can ready an action with more or less any definable, observable trigger.

What your saying seems reasonable and makes since but the two examples on pg 291 both involve enemy triggers, and Immediate reaction does specifiy being triggered by enemy action. Have I missed something that says it can be triggered by other actions?

 

[Mouseferatu]

What your saying seems reasonable and makes since but the two examples on pg 291 both involve enemy triggers, and Immediate reaction does specifiy being triggered by enemy action. Have I missed something that says it can be triggered by other actions?

It's true that the examples specify enemies, and I wish they'd included one that didn't. It'd make things a lot clearer. But look at the whole thing:

First sentence description: "When you ready an action, you prepare to react to a creature's action or an event."

"A creature's" action. Not "an enemy's" action. And "an event" is certainly not an enemy's action.

Note also that, under "Choose trigger," it just says "Choose the action that will trigger your readied action." It nowhere specifies "choose an enemy's action."

Despite the examples, nowhere in actually describing the "ready an action" action does it specify that it must be in reaction to an enemy's action, and the opening sentence specifically allows for "events" that aren't.

Edit to add: Also, there are utility powers that are immediate actions that are triggered by your allies' actions, not your enemy's. So while that doesn't speak to readied actions specifically, it does prove that immediate actions needn't be triggered by enemies.

 

[Nytmare]

The examples do, but nothing in the "Choose a trigger" does. It's written poorly, but the argument leans more towards the written rule being correct and the inferred rule being wrong.

(Also Mouseferatu is Ari Marmell and we have a devil of a time trying to catch him in ruling slip ups. Your best bet is to corner him and get him to admit that things were different in the playtested version)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Oh, I make lots of rules mistakes. I just don't tend to post about rules unless I'm either really sure of an answer, or there's no clear answer. Careful selection of topics keeps my success rate high.