It's Dark Sun

[M.L. Martin]

Wow, I'm floored. A reboot of Dark Sun is like a dream come true.

Enjoy. My setting's becoming a board game.

I kid, I kid. I strongly expected that it would be Dark Sun for next year, and while it's not my style of setting--I prefer my settings more elegant and civilized (apologies to Obi-Wan Kenobi )--I'm glad for the fans who'll get it back.

And I'm looking forward to the Castle Ravenloft board game too.

 

[darjr]

I'd said it was Dark Sun at one point as well. Then went all in for Dragonlance.

I'm very interested in this.

 

[Henrix]

So does the desert of Athas count as a 'sandbox' setting?

Well, seeing that the Athas sun itself is just a point of light, well, yes.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Matthew,
"Count Strahd, in the Library, with the Rod of Azalin!"

I keed! I keed!

Other issues on Dark SUun:

Shamans I don't think really fit the idea of Athasian elemental priests at all, do they?
Elemental clerics revered a specific element and acted in all ways like normal clerics, just their spell selection was more specific and they coudl summon their element 1/day, plus they were oh, kind of rough and ready, they rarely had church heirarchies.

Shamans and druids are more like Athasian druids of 2nd ed, not clerics of the elements. But like I said, 4th ed druids need some more healing powers to be "secondary leaders" if you go down that path.
both would be sworn enemies of defilers and sorceror kings (and thus their templars), because defiling has caused the catastrophic state of Athas today...making defilers enemie sof the "Primal pwoers"
Hence another reason defiling is best left to NPCs or parties more evil in make up. Defiling is a serious issue in Dark Sun parties...almost anything else is forgivable except defiling (survival is primary on Athas, not morals!)

As a poster noted, sure, having defiling as feats makes perfect senses and avoids the mess of making up a new class!
Alas, 2nd ed didn't have feats so they didn't have so much leeway back then.
Bonuses to hit damage, recovering encounter/daily powers, based off a tree of feats, would be cool.
Defiling isn't wrong for the PHB, it's just wrong to let PCs have that power without consequence (which is damn near everyone will be out to kill you on sight of defiling, unless you find a patron or are VERY sneaky).

Gladiators wouldn't always be fighters. fighters are "defenders", gladiators are more likely to be "strikers", the crowd loves mayhem, i.e. high damage. "Marking" is not much used when it's about butchering your opponent in as entertainingly as possible and "team play" is less common? (but team matches do occur)
Defenders are much more likely to be soldiers and especially bodyguards!
Tempest, battlerager and 2handed weapon style are more likely for fighters in the arena and more defencive styles for bodyguards/soldiers.

I dont' think "boxing in" gladiators and templars to specific classes is a good idea at all.
Gladiator could well be a paragon path though.

The original boxed set did have fighters etc as "leaders", but, back then, you could have followers...but there was no mechanics etc for the "warlord" in those days.
You can become a leader by politics/circumstance, or skill (warlord or leader class), they aren't the same thing exactly.

Templars are as likely to be a pencil pusher who can use defencive/parlayzing spells, as paladins, or avengers or..most anything their sorceror king sees as useful (example: Nibenay's templars are all female and are his "Harem" as well as their usual roles).

Since in 4th ed, an NPC can have whatever the heck powers a DM thinks is appropriate for an encounter (just limited by damage rules etc), you can have a hell of a lot of leeway with templar design. Note also this makes sense because only they have access ot huge libraries of spell and psionic information.
So, one templar could be a master psion, another a very weedy but deadly divine spell caster, another one just robust (high con or defences) with the demagoge template from the DMG (a mouthy politician with a knack for survival)..and so on.

Hammanu of Urik is known for being a war-hungry SOB. His templars would tend to be paladins, warlords and able spell casters, but less effcient bureaucrats I think so his city would be oh..less effcient...
And templars who're good bureaucrats would have lots of bodyguards because they know they can't fight good (which is ok! Their slaves protect them, the templars' job is to keep the city running, not slaughter folk)

In my game, one PC is an avenger imbued with the wrath of ancient spirits to destory the sorceror kings...so 4th ed classes are ok, really, and as I said elsewhere, the use of "mutation" as a "Deus Ex Machina" and "schtick" for the setting, lets me fit in damn near any race/class.


PS,
Is Woolly Rupert the real leader of the Cylons, then?

 

[Primal]

Excellent news!

This might make me a 4e fan if they stay true to the setting. Still, it's too early to be sure of anything at the moment.

And that cover is sweet!!!

That is a *killer* cover -- another hit for WR. I might almost buy the book just on the basis of that cover (and I'm not running or playing in 4E campaigns).

 

[Jack99]

I only have one thing to say regarding this news - \o/

I'm a fan of Dark Sun too. However I liked the expanded setting as presented in the Revised DS campaign setting box set.

Congrats on being one in a million (billion)!

 

[avin]

I haven't read the thread apart from the first post announcing this news, but as a huge Dark Sun fan, I cannot help but feel saddened it is being revived in 4E, which I am not a fan of at all. The reason I care one way or another with respect to what settings make it to 4E is that once 5E or 6E comes along and I might start playing the current edition again, these settings will have been ruined forever by Realms* Shattering Events (*replace 'Realms' by the appropriate setting name) and various retcons to fit the settings into the 4E mold, as was done with Forgotten Realms. With Realms it was hard to swallow, but it will be worse now, because now it is the turn of my favorite official campaign setting to be butchered.

Dark Sun worked better on GURPS than 3.5.

3.5 is too much item dependant.

 

[catsclaw227]

To me, all this sounds good. I imagine that the tide swell of nerdrage won't occur until we get our first set of previews.

Perhaps not, but clearly the tide swell of insulting dismissal of others gets to start right now! How cool is that?

It isn't cool at all, actually. How about nobody here does that again.

Sorry Umbran -- My Bad. I suppose I was feeling cynical about the idea we can enjoy this release announcement without some negativity seeping in.

 

[Nork]

The expanded setting was actually not too bad from the POV of actually running a game in practical terms.

The city states in the original box were a little too much of draconian police states with absolute and total control over all life within their borders, right down to the water people drank. Players like to rock the boat, they don't take well to backing down from *anything*. A typical group of typical player characters in the setting wasn't believeable at all. They would act like they act, and the crackdown that the setting would suggest should be forthcoming should be by all rights swift, brutal, and overwhelming.

In the expanded setting, the city states were feeling their grip on power slipping, and to some extent needed to maintain the guise of legitimacy instead of relying on raw power and absolute control. People who pushed boundaries, and even mouthed off, but didn't represent a direct threat to the sorcerer king, would likely get some leeway, or at least more subtle countermeasures directed against them. In cities like Tyr, players had free reign to act as players do.

I think the revised setting just went too far with the number of sorcerer kings it killed off. Merely having free Tyr and Tyr's counter attack on the city of Urik should have been enough to shake the foundations of the setting enough to bring about enough chaos to let players get away with their typical behavior in a plausiable fashion.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Cautiously optimistic. The quote from Bill is almost more newsworthy than the setting announcement itself! If they're true to that, then DS4e has a very good chance of being exceptionally awesome.

For me, it's kind of make-or-break. We'll see how willing they are to let the setting trump the 4e philosophies. If it's elegant, if it's smooth, if it's the same Dark Sun I love just with more awesome, it will rock, and I will want to play it the second week out! If it's "dragonborn are dimensional aliens!" and "we have to fix the 'no metal' thing!" and "high level character should be immune to starvation!" I will probably be TOTALLY disillusioned with 4e instead of my current status of "amused but critical."

No gods is the most important decision so far. How the DS team handles the "planes" will also be vital.

The no gods thing is solid. I kind of wonder what they're doing with the divine power source, but it's an encouraging sign.

The whole "Athas is disconnected from the multiverse" thing might be hard for 4e to deal with. Part of the philosophy of making Eberron World Axis seemed to be "we want people to be able to use the planar material we produce." I don't know how Dark Sun players will be able to use planar material without weakening the setting. In a normal DS game, I shouldn't have the option of just stepping through a portal and going to Mount Celestia.

They better be careful about how they include all the various 4e races.

That has me a little less worried after Eberron. The dragonborn and the eladrin and the tieflings weren't too rudely thrown into the world. Eladrin were probably the most awkward, but because they're not of this world, I suppose that's oddly fitting.

I can see the eladrin giving the setting some difficulties. The nature of the race, the rules of the race, and the fluff of the race, focuses on being from and stepping into another plane, and mastering arcane magic. Both things should be more or less absent from PC abilities. "Oh I stepped into a world of verdant green plants and arcane magic for a second but came back" does NOT WORK HERE.

Campaign crunch from the Forgotten Realms and Eberron settings must NOT be included in the setting. Period.

Again, I think it could work OK. The races and classes are kind of inappropriate, but like with Eberron, there needn't be much mention of them, if any. The book doesn't have to mention Warforged. If you want warforged, you figure it out.

Paladins do not belong in Dark Sun; however, I have a feeling that the class will get shoe-horned into the setting.

Not too worried about that, either, since 4e paladins are a little more flexible. I am a bit curious about the divine power source, but they've already said "no gods," so we'll see where that goes (perhaps the sorcerer-kings are the divine power source in DS? That could make paladins good templars!)

Bards need to be assassin-like. Dark Sun bards are NOT happy lute-stumming minstrels.

Keep assassins assassin-like. Since arcane magic is defiling magic, I can see 4e bards as kind of a phychic leech: you are emotionally drained and deblitated, sucked dry of your feelings around a DS bard. Or, if the bard is a preserver, perhaps the bard itself is deadened of emotion, rendered mute and dull except when giving the eerie keening noise...

Dune Trader should be a class and there must be an option for players who want to be a gladiator in the Dark Sun-style.

The former I think is superfluous. The latter could work either as it's own class, or as a build for something like the barbarian or fighter. Gladiator rules already exist in 4e, so they certainly have done some thought about this.