Eberron Conversion Questions

[Qualidar]

I'm starting up a new Eberron campaign soon using the Pathfinder rules. Several of the conversion issues I'm going to have to deal with are:

• Race balance - Changeling, Shifters, Kalashtar and Warforged matching up to the new standard
• Class adaptation - Artificer, potentially prestige classes down the line

At this point I'm just tossing things around in my head until I can get the books in front of me and do some direct comparisons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this already? I seem to remember a discussion about the races around here previously. That's probably going to be the easy part. The Artificer conversion is where things can get tricky, I bet.

Thoughts?

 

[Shazman]

I have been using the Beta rules to run an Eberron campaign for a few months now. As far as races go, I would probably give shifters a +2 to dex and wis and a -2 to cha. Give changelings and kalashtar a +2 to any score just like humans, half-elves, and half-orcs. I am tempted to say leave warforged as is, but if you want to keep them in line with the other races, give them a +2 to str and con, and -2 to cha. This may make them too powerful, because I think the 3.5 stats for them make them equivalent to a +1 LA, but that's just my opinion. I would leave the artificer as is. Just adjust their skills and limit their infusions to spells found in the Pathfinder book. 3.5 artificers are pretty much broken. A 3.5 artificer with one or more warforged in the party is pretty much game-breaking in my experience.

 

[collin]

I've been thinking about this a little myself. I would use the spell table of the Bard for the Artificer starting with 1st level infusions = 0 level spells. I think most of the 3.5 Eberron rules will transfer over easily. Basically, low at the base stats and bonuses for the Bard as a guide and I think you'll be okay.

 

[Remathilis]

Perhaps these racial mods...

Shifter: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Keep in mind that Pathfinder PCs get more feats, so a shifter can really rack up the shifter-feats. I'd also change the shifting from 1/day (+1 every few shifter feats) to 4 rounds + con mod (+2 rds for every shifter feat) per day/

Kalashtar: Not sure yet. Probably +2 to any one score like a half-human race.

Changling: I'm tempted to give them REAL racial stats, not just +2 to any score. Perhaps +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis?

Warforged: I'm thinking of making them +2 con, -2 cha (aka drop the wis penalty) and keep most everything the same.

Not sure about artificier: A lot of the artificer's powers a fixes for things Pathfinder fixes in the CR (XP for items, identifying magic items, etc). There is an artificer class in Tome of Secrets worth looking at, but beyond that, I think the class would need a complete overhaul to remain viable. Doable, but a lot more work than I'm willing to do at the moment...

 

[Qualidar]

So, I've been diving into the races over here, trying to get a feel for the default power level by assigning values to the individual abilities: +.25 for a rarely useful or flavor ability, +1 for an ability equivalent to a feat, etc. Note I don't have the Eberron book with me, so I'm just pulling stuff off the web for the Eberron races, and I might have some stuff wrong about them.

According to my arbitrary point system, the Pathfinder races and Eberron races have the following value:

Dwarves: +8
Elves: +7
Gnomes: +7.5
Half-elves: 7.25
Half-orcs: +4.25
Halflings: + 7.75
Humans: +4
-------
Changeling: +5.25
Shifter: +4.5
Warforged: +1.75


You can take a look at my crazy point system here:
[sblock]BREAKDOWN

Dwarves
+2 Con / +2 Wis / -2 Chr; +2 net (+2)
Darkvision 60 ft. (+1)
+2 Appraise (+.25)
+2 against poisons, spells, and spell-like abilities (+2)
Defensive Training: +4 AC vs giant type (+.5)
Hatred: +1 attacks vs orc and goblinoids (might have to change that, given the setting) (+.5)
Stability: +2 CMB vs bull rush or trip attempts (+.5)
Battleaxes, Heavy Picks, Warhammers (+.25)
Steady: 20 ft movement, but no encumbrance or armor penalty (0)
Stonecunning: +2 perception checks to notice unusual stonework features, check within 10 ft (+1)
TOTAL: +8


Elves
+2 Dex / +2 Int / -2 Con; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Spellcraft to identify magic items (+.5)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
Immune to magic sleep effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects (+1)
Longbows, Longswords, Rapiers, Shortbows, "elven" weapons (+.5)
+2 Spell penetration checks (+1)
TOTAL: +7


Gnomes
+2 Con / +2 Chr / -2 Str; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Stealth (Small) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
+2 craft or profession skill of their choice (+.25)
+2 vs illusion (+.5)
+1 AC, +1 attack (Small) (+2)
-1 CMB, -1 CMD (Small) (-1)
Small weapons do less damage (-1)
Defensive Training: +4 AC vs giant type (+.5)
Hatred: +1 attacks vs orc and goblinoids (might have to change that, given the setting) (+.5)
"gnome" weapons (+.25)
Slow: 20 ft. (-1)
Gnome magic:
+1 save DC vs their illusions (+1)
1/day: dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, speak with animals (+.5)
TOTAL: +7.5


Half-elves
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
Skill focus bonus feat; +3 to chosen skill (+6 after 10 ranks) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
Immune to magic sleep effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects (+1)
Elven blood: count as both elves and humans for effects related to race (+.25)
Multitalented: 2 favored classes (+1)
TOTAL: 7.25


Half-orcs
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Darkvision 60 ft. (+1)
+2 Intimidate (+.5)
Greataxes, Falchions, "orcish" weapons (+.25)
Orc blood: count as both orcs and humans for effects related to race (+.25)
Orc ferocity: Can fight for round at negative hit points as if disabled (+.25)
TOTAL: +4.25


Halflings
+2 Dex / _2 Chr / -2 Str; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Stealth (Small) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
+2 Acrobatics and Climb (+1)
+2 vs fear effects (+.5)
+1 all saving throws (+2)
+1 AC, +1 attack (Small) (+2)
-1 CMB, -1 CMD (Small) (-1)
Small weapons do less damage (-1)
"halfling" weapons (+.25)
Slow: 20 ft. (-1)
TOTAL: + 7.75


Humans
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Normal vision (0)
+1 skill rank per level (+1)
Bonus feat of their choice (+1)
TOTAL: +4


------------------------------------------------------
Changeling
+2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Chr; -2 net (-2)
Normal vision (0)
+2 Bluff. Intimidate and Sense Motive (+1.5)
Linguistics (formerly Speak Language) is a class skill (+.25)
Minor Shape Change: +10 disguise (+3)
+2 vs sleep and charm (+.5)
TOTAL: +5.25


Shifter
No stat adjustment (0)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Athletics and Climb (formerly Balance, Climb and Jump) (+.5)
Shifting: +2 bonus to physical stat and associated effect, lasting (3 + Con) rounds / day. (3)
TOTAL: +4.5


Warforged
+2 Con / -2 Wis / -2 Chr; -2 net (-2)
Normal vision (0)
Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralyzation, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, the sickened condition, and energy drain (+3)
+2 armor from Composite Plating (5% arcane spell failure chance, can be enchanted) (1)
Light fortification: 25% (1)
Slam attack (1d4 dmg) (1)
Cannot heal naturally (-.25)
Healing magic only cures 1/2 damage (-1)
Subject to some spells and effects that cause objects damage (-.25)
Disabled at 0 hp, inert at -10 (-.25)
Cannot be raised or resurrected (-.5)
Does not need to eat, sleep or breathe (0 - accounted for above)
Unable to wear armor or robe slot items (-1)
TOTAL: 1.75[/sblock]

By my system, it looks like the Changelings need another 2 points, and the Shifter another 3.

I think for Changelings it's as easy as dropping the Int penalty. Alternatly, Remalthilis' +2 any score ability mod works as well. Am I wrong that the current 3.5 adjustment is +2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Chr?

For Shifters, once again I like Remalthilis' I like +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, for a total of +2. They still need a point from somewhere, and I'd rather it wasn't from the stats. Any thoughts? I'm thinking a +1 Fort save.

I'm surprised at where I ended up for the Warforged. The way I'm ranking them they clearly are underpowered, but I know the opposite opinion is very common. Need to come back to them.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Warforged: I'm thinking of making them +2 con, -2 cha (aka drop the wis penalty) and keep most everything the same.

I agree. I think this is much better than giving them an additional +2 Strength. Take a quick poll of your friends who want to play fighters and ask them if they would choose a +2 STR/+2 Con race over anything else.

I'm surprised at where I ended up for the Warforged. The way I'm ranking them they clearly are underpowered, but I know the opposite opinion is very common. Need to come back to them.

Um, what? I think perhaps your arbitrary system is... arbitrary.

 

[Shazman]

So, I've been diving into the races over here, trying to get a feel for the default power level by assigning values to the individual abilities: +.25 for a rarely useful or flavor ability, +1 for an ability equivalent to a feat, etc. Note I don't have the Eberron book with me, so I'm just pulling stuff off the web for the Eberron races, and I might have some stuff wrong about them.

According to my arbitrary point system, the Pathfinder races and Eberron races have the following value:

Dwarves: +8
Elves: +7
Gnomes: +7.5
Half-elves: 7.25
Half-orcs: +4.25
Halflings: + 7.75
Humans: +4
-------
Changeling: +5.25
Shifter: +4.5
Warforged: +1.75


You can take a look at my crazy point system here:
[sblock]BREAKDOWN

Dwarves
+2 Con / +2 Wis / -2 Chr; +2 net (+2)
Darkvision 60 ft. (+1)
+2 Appraise (+.25)
+2 against poisons, spells, and spell-like abilities (+2)
Defensive Training: +4 AC vs giant type (+.5)
Hatred: +1 attacks vs orc and goblinoids (might have to change that, given the setting) (+.5)
Stability: +2 CMB vs bull rush or trip attempts (+.5)
Battleaxes, Heavy Picks, Warhammers (+.25)
Steady: 20 ft movement, but no encumbrance or armor penalty (0)
Stonecunning: +2 perception checks to notice unusual stonework features, check within 10 ft (+1)
TOTAL: +8


Elves
+2 Dex / +2 Int / -2 Con; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Spellcraft to identify magic items (+.5)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
Immune to magic sleep effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects (+1)
Longbows, Longswords, Rapiers, Shortbows, "elven" weapons (+.5)
+2 Spell penetration checks (+1)
TOTAL: +7


Gnomes
+2 Con / +2 Chr / -2 Str; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Stealth (Small) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
+2 craft or profession skill of their choice (+.25)
+2 vs illusion (+.5)
+1 AC, +1 attack (Small) (+2)
-1 CMB, -1 CMD (Small) (-1)
Small weapons do less damage (-1)
Defensive Training: +4 AC vs giant type (+.5)
Hatred: +1 attacks vs orc and goblinoids (might have to change that, given the setting) (+.5)
"gnome" weapons (+.25)
Slow: 20 ft. (-1)
Gnome magic:
+1 save DC vs their illusions (+1)
1/day: dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, speak with animals (+.5)
TOTAL: +7.5


Half-elves
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
Skill focus bonus feat; +3 to chosen skill (+6 after 10 ranks) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
Immune to magic sleep effects, +2 vs enchantment spells and effects (+1)
Elven blood: count as both elves and humans for effects related to race (+.25)
Multitalented: 2 favored classes (+1)
TOTAL: 7.25


Half-orcs
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Darkvision 60 ft. (+1)
+2 Intimidate (+.5)
Greataxes, Falchions, "orcish" weapons (+.25)
Orc blood: count as both orcs and humans for effects related to race (+.25)
Orc ferocity: Can fight for round at negative hit points as if disabled (+.25)
TOTAL: +4.25


Halflings
+2 Dex / _2 Chr / -2 Str; +2 net (+2)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Stealth (Small) (+1)
+2 Perception checks (+1)
+2 Acrobatics and Climb (+1)
+2 vs fear effects (+.5)
+1 all saving throws (+2)
+1 AC, +1 attack (Small) (+2)
-1 CMB, -1 CMD (Small) (-1)
Small weapons do less damage (-1)
"halfling" weapons (+.25)
Slow: 20 ft. (-1)
TOTAL: + 7.75


Humans
+2 ability score of their choice (+2)
Normal vision (0)
+1 skill rank per level (+1)
Bonus feat of their choice (+1)
TOTAL: +4


------------------------------------------------------
Changeling
+2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Chr; -2 net (-2)
Normal vision (0)
+2 Bluff. Intimidate and Sense Motive (+1.5)
Linguistics (formerly Speak Language) is a class skill (+.25)
Minor Shape Change: +10 disguise (+3)
+2 vs sleep and charm (+.5)
TOTAL: +5.25


Shifter
No stat adjustment (0)
Low-light vision (+1)
+2 Athletics and Climb (formerly Balance, Climb and Jump) (+.5)
Shifting: +2 bonus to physical stat and associated effect, lasting (3 + Con) rounds / day. (3)
TOTAL: +4.5


Warforged
+2 Con / -2 Wis / -2 Chr; -2 net (-2)
Normal vision (0)
Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralyzation, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, the sickened condition, and energy drain (+3)
+2 armor from Composite Plating (5% arcane spell failure chance, can be enchanted) (1)
Light fortification: 25% (1)
Slam attack (1d4 dmg) (1)
Cannot heal naturally (-.25)
Healing magic only cures 1/2 damage (-1)
Subject to some spells and effects that cause objects damage (-.25)
Disabled at 0 hp, inert at -10 (-.25)
Cannot be raised or resurrected (-.5)
Does not need to eat, sleep or breathe (0 - accounted for above)
Unable to wear armor or robe slot items (-1)
TOTAL: 1.75[/sblock]

By my system, it looks like the Changelings need another 2 points, and the Shifter another 3.

I think for Changelings it's as easy as dropping the Int penalty. Alternatly, Remalthilis' +2 any score ability mod works as well. Am I wrong that the current 3.5 adjustment is +2 Dex / -2 Int / -2 Chr?

For Shifters, once again I like Remalthilis' I like +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, for a total of +2. They still need a point from somewhere, and I'd rather it wasn't from the stats. Any thoughts? I'm thinking a +1 Fort save.

I'm surprised at where I ended up for the Warforged. The way I'm ranking them they clearly are underpowered, but I know the opposite opinion is very common. Need to come back to them.

Don't bother with the point buy. It seems to be giving you some wonky results. I would stick with the following:
Changelings: +2 to one
Kalashtar: +2 to one
Shifters: +2 dex, +2 wis, -2 cha
Warforged: +2 con, -2 cha

 

[NiTessine]

It might not be a bad idea to wait with the warforged until the Bestiary is out. Unless I'm mistaken, we do not yet know if and how the Construct type has changed, and if, say, they are no longer immune to critical hits, the warforged's light fortification could be removed and replaced. Personally, it's exactly the kind of ability I dislike - it's too easy to forget when you need it and enters play rarely.

 

[lmpjr007]

I'm starting up a new Eberron campaign soon using the Pathfinder rules. Several of the conversion issues I'm going to have to deal with are:

• Race balance - Changeling, Shifters, Kalashtar and Warforged matching up to the new standard

• 
  Well you can get Race Creation Cookbook and do an point based creation of the races, but if you can wait until late Oct. / Early Nov. their will be a Race Creation Cookbook version made exclusively for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.

 

[collin]

I uploaded a version of the Artificer into the Pathfinder database. It is a fairly straight forward conversion from the Eberron 3.5 artificer with a few enhancements.

One question I have: if a super 20th level special ability were added to this class, what should it be?

thanks in advance