Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Psionics (from Dreamscarred)

[Dannyalcatraz]

You may call expansion + monkey grip effective, but I have seen it in action, and it can become quite ludicrous.

Seen it in action? I've used it.

In particular, I used it with a Githzerai Monk/PsyWar who, by virtue of his increased size, became the only melee specialist in the party who could tag a dragon who was intent on staying out of reach. The other warriors' ranged attacks were more a nuisance than a threat.

Were it not for him, the dragon would have been free to strafe the party at will, with either his breath weapon or large boulders. Not to mention his spells.

The spellcasters did the majority of the damage, to be sure, but the big column of meat meant that the dragon couldn't easily retaliate. Equipped with a Bisento (an Oriental Adventures/Rokugan polearm), the Pole Fighter feat (DCv1, identical to PHB2's Pole Master) that made that polearm into a monk weapon, and the Combat Reflexes/Hold the Line/Stand Still/Deft Opportunist feat tree, the Githzerai ensured the dragon couldn't move freely around the party and take out the Wizard.

Which, BTW, was essentially the same experience I had at a Dallas ENWorld gameday using a Monk/Fighter/Kensai with Enlarge Person potions. The difference was that there were 2 dragons, and the other warrior in the party was a Knight with no ranged weapons.

That aside, when you compare it to some of the other things a PsyWar can do, its no big wonder that many gamers on these boards consider the class a one-trick pony. Nothing else even comes close.

But as I pointed out, you can do nearly the same thing without psionics...its just more convoluted.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I dunno. When your whole contribution to the party is hitting things with a light sabre (or thereabouts), I would imagine that they should be at least equal best at, well, hitting things. Full BAB makes a lot of sense to me. If the Monk didn't have flurry of blows (which, so the theory goes, provides compensation for only medium BAB by way of more chances to hit) what use would they be? It can be (and often has been) argued that they are were not much use even so, but that's a whole 'nother thread (or um, a thousand threads, more like it).

I understand- I've been in many of those threads myself, and have no wish to fully rehash them here.

However, I'm solidly of the opinion that a completely concealable, never disarmable weapon that gets bonus damage, inherent improvement, variable size & damage AND can be used at (limited) range...that can really ruin a spellcaster's day is pretty good compensation for medium BAB. My solution (were I to redo the class) was more along the line of giving the Soulknife the Knife to the Soul ability at a lower level and changing the way it scaled, coupled with a few actual psi-powers.

 

[Voadam]

So far the discussions have yielded this:


* The Soulknife might become a Psychic Warrior "build" in the form of a feat-tree rather than a class by itself.

Anyone else have suggestions?

Please do not eliminate the soulknife base class. Mechanically I love the soulknife class while I do not care as much for the point management of the psychic warrior. The soulknife has a couple on off powers (psychic strike, psionic focus) that can recharge in a round or in each encounter. It is straightforward mechanically, easier to track their resources, and uses combat actions to charge them up rather than downtime.

Making a "soulknife build psychic warrior" and feat tree option so a psionic fighter could be a "soulknife" are neat ideas, but the soulknife as a class is a great match for certain playstyle preferences that these options do not match.

I'm also of the camp that thinks the d10 HD of the melee skirmisher should be matched with a 1/1 BAB instead of 3/4. I think of them as closer to a ranger and swashbuckler in combat role than a rogue. Soulknives do not do as much damage as the consistent pathfinder sneak attack rogue, have more hp (though less of a difference than in 3.5) and less special defenses than the rogue, and could use a bit of boosting to stay competent at their primary role of skirmishing weapons guy.

 

[Bacris]

I've been out of the loop thanks to a broken PC (blown mobo), but I am watching this (and other) thread about Pathfinder psionics - even if I'm not participating actively, don't think I'm not taking notes for when we start modifying the rules!

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Maybe Psionics needs to be more limited than magic in what it can do, but have the Psions be able to do it more often than magic users? I do not know, I am just posting off the top of my head.

 

[Psion]

So, once again - what would YOU want to see updated, changed, revised or altered and WHY?

I am very happy with my Malhavoc & Dreamscarred product from 3.5. Pathfinder gives me a highly compatible follow on for 3.5. I'd expect the same from a Pathfinder Psionics system.

Bruce's Mindscapes Psionics system is cool. It'd be great if it could show up (probably renamed, since "Mindscapes" is PI).

Of course, Pathfinder hit many troublecausing spells and feats with a nerf stick; the psionic offenders would need the same.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Regarding Soulknives in comparison to rogues, rangers, swashbucklers;

THe 3.5 swashbuckler was considered a 3 level class, so I'm not sure that's such a good comparison on what you should add to the class. However, the Tome of Secrets swashbuckler is a lot better. Let's look at each new class and see what they get.

Pathfinder Rogue: Sneak Attack progresses faster and can be used on every attack without needing to charge it. It has 2+ skills, trapfinding, and it's every other level talent, and lastly, both the evasion and uncanny dodge trees.

Pathfinder Ranger: Favored enemy gives +2 to attack and damage now, on top of the skill increases, and he gains favored terrain as well. The weapon style gives five feats instead of three, but then so does the soulknife. He still has the ranger-esque abilities of track, wild empathy, and camoflage. The big difference is spellcasting - rangers now cast at level-3 instead of 1/2level - and their bond ability - which can be to their companions instead of to an animal friend. Also, evasion tree. Oh, and full BAB.

ToS Swashbuckler: First off, full BAB, but -2 skill points. Swashbuckler gains Weapon Finesse for free, but the soulknife gets Weapon Focus. However, swashbuckler also gets a stacking bonus to his AC. Bonus feats at a slightly faster progression, a sneak attack variant that doesn't need charging, the warrior weapon training, increasing his threat range twice, and of course, the evasion tree.

 

[Arkhandus]

I'm too busy right now to offer any other input, but two points:

1. Like others, I think the thematic elements need to be more mutable so they appeal to a wider audience. Too many hate or ignore psionics just because of the quasi-scientific or crystalpunk themes that have been used before in D&D psionics. Eberron took a step in the right direction with psionics, but including descriptions and such for using psionics in different themes beyond just quasi-magical dreamstuff or crystal-obsessive astral/ethereal energies would draw more people to accept psionics. I don't mind either way, but others are really vehement about it.

2. Perhaps power points should be adjusted for a shorter time basis, rather than a per-day basis? If you don't have a bunch of daily power points, you can't spam your best/most-augmented powers for a 'nova', and can't then demand that the party rest after your 1st or 2nd encounter of the day because you've blown all your power points. If you reduce the number of power points somewhat (or at least slow down their accumulation by level), you can restrict this annoying tendency by some gamers. Just have power points regenerate slowly each hour, maybe sped up slightly with an Autohypnosis check with each hour of meditation (similar to the 2E AD&D psionic nonweapon proficiency Psionic Rejuvenation or whatever it was called).

So no nova-ing, and fewer power points available in each encounter, but enough to be fair. Like a psion who might have 2 or 3 power points at 1st-level after their bonus for Intelligence or whatever, but regenerates 1 point per hour or 1 point per 2 hours maybe, doubled when meditating with a successful Autohypnosis check or something (or maybe the check would be made to simply reduce the necessary meditation time to 1 hour, instead of 2 hours without the check).

 

[Shazman]

I think that the slow regeneration of power points would be confusing and difficult to keep up with. I think if you just put a lower cap on how many power points you can spend to augment powers or just reduce total power points, it would solve a lot of the "go nova, and rest" problem.

 

[Voadam]

THe 3.5 swashbuckler was considered a 3 level class,

How so?