Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder: Is it evidence that new editions don't need to be that different?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think that not only is that not the only business model, I think it's a short-sighted and ultimately ruinous one.

Why do you assume it's ruinous? Doesn't tell us history the opposite?

AD&D 2E was not revamped with a new edition and the company was dying.
3E comes around, it's a great hit for Wizards of the Coast.

But I understand that if you think the Rent Model is the only possible one, you've got nowhere to go but "Edition +1" as soon as you publish all the rules you can realistically publish.

You can always create a new core system. It's really not that hard. It doesn't mean it's better than the ones before, but certainly different.

What is your alternative non-Rent model? I hope it's a model that keeps the company using it alive and well, and not one that leads to the company never to grow and possibly shrink...

Or is this one of the things like:
"Slipstream is a terrible way to travel faster than light. Unfortunately, it is the only one we have."

 

[Jack99]

If you think that's the only way an rpg publisher like WOTC can survive and thrive, then 4E is inevitable. As is 5E in a few years, and 6E a few years after that, ad infinitum.

I think that not only is that not the only business model, I think it's a short-sighted and ultimately ruinous one. But I understand that if you think the Rent Model is the only possible one, you've got nowhere to go but "Edition +1" as soon as you publish all the rules you can realistically publish.

I agree that it's not the only business model. But calling something that worked for 30 years shortsighted is a bit odd. I mean, the business of RPG's is only as old as D&D.

Also, I think you are missing a very important thing that WOtC has changed in their business model. The DDI. The DDI is what will keep WotC alive and well through all the edition changes (IMO).

Because with every edition change, they lose players. Or rather, they lose customers. Because they are who they are, they also bring a lot of new players into the business, but my guess, and this is just a guess, is that with every edition, fewer and fewer people are playing the current edition.

Now, with the DDI, WotC has just struck gold. When they announce 5e, a good chunk of the DDI subscribers will howl and demand Bill's head on a platter, wow'ing that they will never play 5e, because it's too anime and like a videogame. They will stick to their good old 4e. And thus keep paying for the DDI - because let's face it, the CB and MM alone are more than worth the $5-8 a month. Even if some people aren't convinced of that atm, I can assure you that the number of subscribers to the DDI will only go one way as more is released for 4e - up.

So, anyway. WotC releases 5e, but unlike with the previous editions, they keep a decent income from it, via the DDI. Because at this point, it's just money in the bank, since it's just maintenance.

The other possibility is that they keep a staff of a couple of guys that keep producing choice 4e stuff, released solely via the DDI.

/shrug

 

[Rechan]

Also, as far as releasing a "New edition that's just a modification on the last", I think WotC prematurely edited with 3.5.

Monte Cook said that they planned to do 3.5 from the beginning of 3.0.

However, because they pulled the trigger 4 years in, if they had decided to do 3.75, I think it would have been "too soon". If they had not done 3.5, then I think 3.75 packaged as 4e would have sold. But, because they went with 3.5, there just would not have been as much of a justification.

It would have said to the customers, "Yeah we plan on doing this every 4 years."

Now, the designers have said they WILL NOT DO a 4.5. My guess is that they're going to come out with AD&D 4e.

 

[Jack99]

Now, the designers have said they WILL NOT DO a 4.5. My guess is that they're going to come out with AD&D 4e.

I can already hear the howls for Rouses blood.

 

[Reigan]

No, only that there needed to be more than one edition. No matter which way WotC went, a big chunk of their customers would not have liked it, a big enough number for a company like Paizo to move in and produce an alternative.

 

[Umbran]

I think that not only is that not the only business model, I think it's a short-sighted and ultimately ruinous one. But I understand that if you think the Rent Model is the only possible one, you've got nowhere to go but "Edition +1" as soon as you publish all the rules you can realistically publish.

Korgoth, it is not sufficient to say, "That is bad". Your argument isn't very strong unless you can give an alternative that deals with the following:

1) The known size of the market is not large (There is as yet no evidence that tabletop roleplaying can ever be made "mainstream" - at this time an effort to do so would be high risk, and thus a questionable business model)

2) Small markets saturate quickly.

3) Businesses require a continuing revenue stream in order to remain viable.

 

[billd91]

Why do you assume it's ruinous? Doesn't tell us history the opposite?

AD&D 2E was not revamped with a new edition and the company was dying.
3E comes around, it's a great hit for Wizards of the Coast.

Not with that little piece of information, it doesn't. TSR wasn't collapsing because they lacked a third edition. TSR was done in mainly by poor management.
3e was a big hit - put out by a company that could pay for the R&D, pay for the printing, and pay for the promotion.

 

[AllisterH]

Assuming they get the full DDI suite up and running, I think WOTC would decide NOT to come out with a 5e (or at least one that is more akin to 2e is to 1e than what even 3e is to 2e).


DDI basically allows them to get OFF the treadmill that Korgoth mentions. They no longer have to produce books every month to have revenue for D&D.

A VTT that is a monthly subscription looks very attractive to WOTC (which is why I think we will eventually see a VTT - WOTC has simply learnt the Blizzard business model. Don't announce ANYTHING until you pretty much out the door)

 

[mudbunny]

There is no doubt that there were topics left unplumbed by WOtC. They could have been written into splat books. The question becomes whether the books would sell enough to cover WotC's production costs.

 

[ggroy]

Assuming they get the full DDI suite up and running, I think WOTC would decide NOT to come out with a 5e (or at least one that is more akin to 2e is to 1e than what even 3e is to 2e).


DDI basically allows them to get OFF the treadmill that Korgoth mentions. They no longer have to produce books every month to have revenue for D&D.

If DDI is relatively profitable compared to selling books, 5E may very well be postponed for a very long time. 4E could very well last for a long time as a "living document" that is constantly changing, in the form of the DDI subscription service with the character + monster builders and VTT.