There already is a 4E version of Kalamar done by Kenzer, but it is only available as a pdf.
Kenzer & Company
Though it seems to have been a snoozer so far, in terms of promotion and advertising.
Third Party: If So, Then What?
- Thread starter GMSkarka
- Start date
There already is a 4E version of Kalamar done by Kenzer, but it is only available as a pdf.
Kenzer & Company
Though it seems to have been a snoozer so far, in terms of promotion and advertising.
pawsplay
Hero
So even Kalamar isn't a Kalamar. Hmm.
Obryn
Hero
Yeah, it's shocking, but 4e players did not flock to a barely-advertised PDF-only overpriced re-release of old material with shaky mechanics.
-O
Obryn
Hero
The 3e version was great when it was released, and its popularity and success were aided by actual physical products with the D&D logo on the cover.
The 4e release wasn't a good 3pp setting, for the reasons I laid out above. It's basically the opposite of what I'd consider a good new release.
This isn't 2000/2001 anymore. Experienced gamers are more jaded towards third-party releases than they used to be, and inexperienced gamers might not even know there's a PDF market out there.
-O
I wasn't even aware of much of the 3pp market, until towards the end of the 3.5E era. I completely missed the heady early days of 3E. (I was still on my very long hiatus away from gaming at the time).
Back in the day, the only 3pp I was aware of was Judges Guild. Their modules looked kind of amateurish compared to TSR's offerings back then.
Jack99
Adventurer
Poor doesn't cover it. My dog could have written more solid stuff..
Joshua Randall
Legend
Fascinating discussion here, but I think a lot of people are taking for granted that the mere existence of the DDI, specifically the Character Builder (CB), somehow locks all third-party publishers out of the "crunch creation for players" game.
I don't think that is true, at all. The CB is a fantastic tool; but it just that, a tool. As Obryn has said several times, if you make a good enough setting, with good enough player-crunch tied to compelling fluff, then you can surely convince the players to put up with the minor inconvenience of not being able to use the CB with your product. (At least, not out of the box; of course you can add custom elements yourself.)
As an aside, my anecdotal evidence* seems to indicate that the use of the CB is far from 100% among the 4e players I know. Some players don't want to pay for the DDI; some players don't like the DDI or CB for whatever reason; some players just prefer an alternate "output" -- so while they might use the CB, they don't print out the power cards or character sheets; they write things by hand. And if you're going to write things by hand, then using third-party stuff is no big deal.
* Yes, I'm well aware of the dangers of anecdotal evidence, and I frequently rail against it, but it's all I've got. Heh.
One thing I do agree with, that has been said by various people in this thread, is that these days you cannot simply churn out some barely competent third-party product and expect it to sell. First, you have to compete with the seemingly newly invigorated Wizards of the Coast, which has the might of being official, the economies of scale, and top-notch production values.
Second, you have to compete with the other third-party companies that are veterans of publishing for D&D (since the 3e days), and many of which have production values on par with WotC's.
So if you want to launch a product these days, and you expect it to be a "big success" (whatever that means), you'd better bring your A game. And I for one am eager to see people do this, because more competition, more new products, more new ideas, makes the game better and more entertaining for everyone.
I don't think that is true, at all. The CB is a fantastic tool; but it just that, a tool. As Obryn has said several times, if you make a good enough setting, with good enough player-crunch tied to compelling fluff, then you can surely convince the players to put up with the minor inconvenience of not being able to use the CB with your product. (At least, not out of the box; of course you can add custom elements yourself.)
As an aside, my anecdotal evidence* seems to indicate that the use of the CB is far from 100% among the 4e players I know. Some players don't want to pay for the DDI; some players don't like the DDI or CB for whatever reason; some players just prefer an alternate "output" -- so while they might use the CB, they don't print out the power cards or character sheets; they write things by hand. And if you're going to write things by hand, then using third-party stuff is no big deal.
* Yes, I'm well aware of the dangers of anecdotal evidence, and I frequently rail against it, but it's all I've got. Heh.
One thing I do agree with, that has been said by various people in this thread, is that these days you cannot simply churn out some barely competent third-party product and expect it to sell. First, you have to compete with the seemingly newly invigorated Wizards of the Coast, which has the might of being official, the economies of scale, and top-notch production values.
Second, you have to compete with the other third-party companies that are veterans of publishing for D&D (since the 3e days), and many of which have production values on par with WotC's.
So if you want to launch a product these days, and you expect it to be a "big success" (whatever that means), you'd better bring your A game. And I for one am eager to see people do this, because more competition, more new products, more new ideas, makes the game better and more entertaining for everyone.
pawsplay
Hero
Actually, their friend can convince them of that. You have to convince their friend to buy the book. What value are they getting for their money? Quality matters only in relation to a product they want.
