Using a shield while not using a shield

[CapnZapp]

My player (with a Greatweapon build Fighter PC) wants to know if I allow the following scenario:

Picking up an item / Wielding a weapon is free with Quickdraw.

Can he draw forth a small/light shield, use a power like Stalwart Guard (PHB81) and benefit from the extra bonus you get when "using a shield", then drop the shield as a free action, and make his attack using his greatweapon (using the now freed shield hand)?

(He would leave a number of these shields behind during any given combat; but they can be non-magical, so assuming he can collect them after most fights, this seems to be a non-issue)

Obviously I can allow or disallow this based purely on grounds of "not being in the spirit of the rules" or similar. Here and now I am asking the rules lawyers of ENWorld if you can do this from a pure Rules As Written POV.

In other words, do you believe WotC have managed to sufficiently protect the sword'n'board fighter's powers from being used by other fighter builds?

Do the rules prevent this scenario or do I have to make a judgment call myself?

/a DM

 

[FireLance]

I believe removing a shield also requires a standard action (it should be stated either in the description of shields as equipment or in the combat actions table). It was an issue for my warlord multiclass swordmage - since I only got the use of Swordmage Warding once per day, and there was no quick way to remove my (light) shield during combat, I had to decide whether to remove the shield before the fight begins. I ended up using the lesser version of Swordmage Warding most of the time (net +2 to AC, +1 for shield and +1 for Swordmage Warding, instead of +3 to AC for Swordmage warding with an empty off-hand).

 

[eamon]

Both equipping and stowing a shield are standard actions (see the action summary table in the PHB).

So, you cannot equip then let go of a shield freely. By contrast, a swordmage could use a two-handed weapon for all attacks since changing from one-handed grip to two-handed grip (and vice-versa) is a free action (with quickdraw, even drawing a weapon from its sheath is effectively free when combined with an attack) - see Q18 on the PHB FAQ.

i.e. a swordmage could run around with a fullblade and still benefit from his warding class feature fully while he's not attacking.

 

[CapnZapp]

Both equipping and stowing a shield are standard actions (see the action summary table in the PHB).

Thanks!

This is good 'cos now there is no case for disappointment.

Re: the Swordmage thing; that rule really needs to say something like "you get the Warding benefit if you have used a one-handed blade only since the beginning of your last turn".

But it's a good example of a similar loophole (except my case wasn't one).

 

[eamon]

Re: the Swordmage thing; that rule really needs to say something like "you get the Warding benefit if you have used a one-handed blade only since the beginning of your last turn".

I'm not sure what's best. A problem with such a phrasing might conceivably be that it makes using your hand for any purpose tricky (potion use, climbing, whatever). Perhaps something like "if you attack or are attacked while you have no hands free, you take a -2 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn".

Just curious (having no swordmage play experience) - would a 2 handed weapon be a big deal for a swordmage, power-wise?

 

[RickVigorous]

If you're talking about a greatsword, fullblade, or other two-handed weapon, the hand-switching technique won't help much; you can go from wielding a two-handed weapon to carrying (but not wielding) one. On the other hand, you can grab a versatile weapon and use it two-handed on your turn, switching when the turn ends for the bigger warding. What this amounts to is that you can get a +1 to damage on your turn, which is fairly trivial. I don't think there's anything unbalanced about it.

 

[Klaus]

Just FYI Re: sword-n-board fighters powers for other builds:

Tempest Fighters can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Shield) and use both two-weapon powers and shield-required powers.

 

[keterys]

What this amounts to is that you can get a +1 to damage on your turn, which is fairly trivial. I don't think there's anything unbalanced about it.

It can be trivial and unbalanced and still be an unintended loophole. I've seen two swordmages ask if they could do it and have the DM tell them they could swap handedness on their weapon once a turn, basically deciding on either +1 damage or +2 AC each turn.

End of the day, encouraging people to try stupid game tricks for every advantage - such as quickdrawing shields back and forth - is probably not healthy for the game. Even if it were a free action, it would be quite valid to limit the number of free shield-related actions taken to, say, equipping one but then not dropping it.

 

[Mirtek]

i.e. a swordmage could run around with a fullblade and still benefit from his warding class feature fully while he's not attacking.

No, he could not. He would get zero warding bonus because he would be holding the fullblade and would not be wielding a blade. He could use a versatile weapon for two-handed attacks and switch to one-handed for the warding, but this +1 to damage is really negligible

Edit: Well, much too late

 

[Armadillo]

Both equipping and stowing a shield are standard actions (see the action summary table in the PHB).

Is that true for a buckler? You can just drop a buckler. Certainly it is appropriate to require a standard action to equip and stow other shields.