Pathfinder 1E Why do you discuss Pathfinder on ENWorld instead of Paizo.com?

[El Mahdi]

...I have also found far more fanbois over at Paizo but that is to be expected. It is a single product form while ENWorld is a more general forum. People who post at Paizo are more like to be fans of the system. But that being said it is still annoying when you start a thread about suggestions to improve something and the net result is a bunch of flaming about how wonderful/perfect the product is, how nothing could make it better, and how maybe you should just go run homebrews if you cannot fully appreciate how wondergful/perfect the Adventure Path is.

As a side not I also found it damn funny when a poster who is a DM told me I shouldnt be reading or posting in a topic I created becuase said DM wanted to post spoilers and didnt think a player deserved to be in the forum. That though isnt really a problem of the Paizo board beyond how the fanbois over there can feel like they have the authority of their post count to order people around.

I've found this also. At Paizo and WotC forums as well as other game specific forums. ENWorld seems much more tolerant and helpful as concerns ideas about any game. Now, not even ENWorld is perfect. There are people here that can, and do, indulge in the same type of behavior that turns me off from game specific forums (and I'm not entirely perfect as concerns this either). But overall, the moderation here, along with the Grandma rule, makes this a much more open and useful place, IMO. No idea is considered a "bad" idea - usually. Most people here are willing to be constructive and friendly in their comments.

 

[Voadam]

It's funny how perception colors your outlook though. Reading the complaints about Paizo.com's format I find that I have the exact same complaints about ENWorld. I guess it is what you are used to. I dislike the black background, I find the categories confusing (Although I have been lurking here more often now that Pathfinder has a separate forum ). I also find most signatures and the clutter of junk very distracting. No slam on ENWorld, just a difference in perception. I'm sure if I hadn't been sucked into EQ and WoW for seven years and I had discovered ENWorld back at the beginning I'd be a staunch supporter.

Many of those defaults (like the background color) can be changed if you want. Try going into your profile here and you should be able to change those things for when you are logged in. If you have questions on how to do so the META forum category is for those kinds of questions.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I've found this also, at Paizo and WotC forums as well as other game specific forums. ENWorld seems much more tolerant and helpful as concerns ideas about any game. Now, not even ENWorld is perfect. There are people here that can, and do, indulge in the same type of behavior that turns me off from game specific forums (and I'm not entirely perfect as concerns this either). But overall, the moderation here, along with the Grandma rule, makes this a much more open and useful place, IMO. No idea is considered a "bad" idea - usually. Most people here are willing to be constructive and friendly in their comments.

I think the really big difference is that this is not a brand forum. This does not make EN World immune as you said, ocassionally those who are passionate about a particular line of products can be a bit over the top, but that is not the norm.

Also here at EN World I think we have more non-product specific discussions so there is less chance for a fanboi to make an appearance. At Paizo the conversations are much more focused around the different products and thus can generate stronger more protective opinions from some fans.

 

[DonTadow]

I don't like the pathfinder forums too much because its too pathfinder. Look at the product reviews, nothing ever gets less than a 4 star. Everyone seems to think everything paizo does is golden and I just can't take that on a regular basis. I've literally read reviews in forums where someone talks about all the typos, inconsistencies and misleveling, and then still gives it a 4 star or a 5 star.

 

[frankthedm]

Threads get segregated into the no way out archive WAAAAAY too fast on Paizo's boards. They don't even get a month before they are chucked into the archives.

No custom avatars is also a discouragement. Not only do I like using this avatar, when it looks like clone avatars are talking to each other, it feels so damn odd to me.

 

[mxyzplk]

I mostly like the Paizo boards better. To break it down:

1. Usability/Visuals/Functionality
a. Less junk on the page on Paizo. Every forum page I see on ENWorld is one big ad for community supporter accounts; I have to go below the fold to see content at all. That's not cool.
b. More efficient page viewing on Paizo. 50 posts per page vs 20 posts per page.
c. Search works on Paizo. I like search.
d. ENWorld has custom avatars, which I like.
e. A little sig might be nice (Paizo allows none) but I don't like the big ass sigs with banner ads in them (which I see here)- a happy medium would be a one line text sig. Tie.
f. I personally like the black on white with nice font on Paizo better. The graphic design is just plain better - beveled edges, etc. Man, on the ENWorld home page the Columnists section is pure 1993 quality Web design.
g. Both sites are egregiously slow. ENWorld is worse though - loading the main forums page is 505 kB vs 123 kB for Paizo.
h. Paizo doesn't let you email-subscribe to a thread. This is a big deal to me and one of the biggest black marks against their platform. I'm not a full time forum lurker and don't want to have to check back, and I'm too old to do this RSS stuff.

2. People/content
a. Paizo pulls stuff off to the Archive too fast.
b. Paizo does have too many sub-forums, though working search means you can still find things OK.
c. From a Pathfinder point of view, obviously there's a lot more content and discussions there than here. Here - four threads updated today. Paizo - too many to count.
d. I don't like ENWorld moderation. Sorry. "Thread closed for people having strong opinions!" Too many individuals with pet axes to grind and people who manipulate the moderation to get their way. Paizo takes a lighter hand, but there still aren't nasty name-calling exchanges that don't get clamped down on, which is the right balance IMO.
e. More people with experience from other systems here on ENWorld.
f. Fewer "is Pathfinder good/sell me on Pathfinder" threads on Paizo. I'm not a paid marketer so I don't really like spending my time on that. Though there are a couple chronic "4e rules pathfinder drools" people I'd like to see gone from paizo.com.
g. Cliques. It is true that on the Paizo boards there are some serial posters who are queen bees, and their attention brings attention to a thread; them ignoring a thread tends to get it not responded to. There's that here too, of course.
h. Pedantic char-op concerns about rules - a tie. (Both better than the Wizards boards, of course.)

In the end, I think content-wise Paizo's boards are better for those actually playing Pathfinder. Those who want to dabble or evangelize are better suited here. Both boards are usable enough, but in my opinion Paizo's actually get the edge there.

ENWorld is specifically better to get mechanics help. Like my recent post on Hero Points, I put both here and on Paizo. I got more/more helpful posts here than on Paizo. And ENWorld is better if you're dabbling, which is natural - if you're deep into a game, likely there is more focused discussion and content on a niche site, but this site is good to see a little of everything.

 

[SSquirrel]

I dislike the black background, I find the categories confusing.

I prefer dark backgrounds in general. My LCD gets pretty darn bright and the muted colors works better for me. The categories seem to be pretty well ordered to me since the most recent changes, but I've been here since it was Eric's site.

I also find most signatures and the clutter of junk very distracting. No slam on ENWorld, just a difference in perception. *SNIP large banner sig*

The irony of this complaint paired w/that big sig is amusing to me. Displaying exactly what every poster on the paizo.com site subscribes to just seems odd to me. Fanboy one-upsmanship?

Also seems like it would be another way for people to feel encouraged to point at someone and reduce their opinion to nothing merely b/c they have no or fewer subs than you. See it all the time on the WoW boards when people look at armory stats.

I mostly like the Paizo boards better. To break it down:

1. Usability/Visuals/Functionality
a. Less junk on the page on Paizo. Every forum page I see on ENWorld is one big ad for community supporter accounts; I have to go below the fold to see content at all. That's not cool.
b. More efficient page viewing on Paizo. 50 posts per page vs 20 posts per page.
c. Search works on Paizo. I like search.
e. A little sig might be nice (Paizo allows none) but I don't like the big ass sigs with banner ads in them (which I see here)- a happy medium would be a one line text sig. Tie.

2. People/content
d. I don't like ENWorld moderation. Sorry. "Thread closed for people having strong opinions!" Too many individuals with pet axes to grind and people who manipulate the moderation to get their way. Paizo takes a lighter hand, but there still aren't nasty name-calling exchanges that don't get clamped down on, which is the right balance IMO.
f. Fewer "is Pathfinder good/sell me on Pathfinder" threads on Paizo. I'm not a paid marketer so I don't really like spending my time on that. Though there are a couple chronic "4e rules pathfinder drools" people I'd like to see gone from paizo.com.
h. Pedantic char-op concerns about rules - a tie. (Both better than the Wizards boards, of course.)

Easiest to just respond in series here.

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a I can turn those off, you may even be able to kill them in firefox using the RIP extension.
b Yeah I wish ENWorld would allow us more options on that, but my guess is their servers are more optimized toward more frequent smaller pulls instead of people frequently pulling larger data, then deciding not to read and backing out again.
c Search works for me, but I supported ENWorld w/an account during a big 3 year sale during the last server problem.
e I think the huge sigs are dumb, but that is the web over if people are allowed stuff like that. Big sigs of people pointing toward 6 WoW characters at once on some web forums is ridiculous (easy example).

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d The time I spent over there saw Paizo take NO hand and saw all the name calling and nastiness with not even a "hey guys, take it easy". When threads devolve into a circle of the same repeated arguements, clsoe the thread. Which is what happens here.
f Those threads are typically by people who have heard good/interesting things about a system, but they WANT to be evangelized to. You don't ask someone who drives a Pinto about why they should want to own a BMW. You talk to someone who has owned 5 of them.
h The char op stuff gets silly and out of hand, but that's typically why I ignore those threads. I used to sit around and make characters for hours, but I have 2 kids now and lack said free time. More power to ya if ya have it and enjoy that. That was an aspect of things I thought got out of control during 3.5 and was glad to see reduced a bit in 4E.

 

[LurkMonkey]

I prefer dark backgrounds in general. My LCD gets pretty darn bright and the muted colors works better for me. The categories seem to be pretty well ordered to me since the most recent changes, but I've been here since it was Eric's site.



The irony of this complaint paired w/that big sig is amusing to me. Displaying exactly what every poster on the paizo.com site subscribes to just seems odd to me. Fanboy one-upsmanship?

Meh. When in Rome. I was trying to give Wolfgang's mag a bit of exposure. I think the Paizo subscription display is a canny way to link geekish competition to sales, as you said: 'fanboy one-upmanship'. Kind of like the Community Supporter tag here.

Also seems like it would be another way for people to feel encouraged to point at someone and reduce their opinion to nothing merely b/c they have no or fewer subs than you. See it all the time on the WoW boards when people look at armory stats.

I've never seen anyone dismissed on the Paizo boards for lack of subscriptions. Every Internet forum has a different method of measuring 'cred'. Here it's community support, date of join and post tallies, which are posted right under your name. I have like 14 posts at the moment, joined in 2008, and do not donate. I am sure people dismiss me as not a 'true' ENWorlder since I don't have 1,000+ posts here, a five-year-ago join date, or the pretty green avatar border.

As I mentioned before, if I had stumbled on this site a little earlier in the decade, I'm sure I would be a staunch supporter, but I didn't. All I was trying to say is it is just a perception issue more than anything else why I don't post here and post on Paizo. You say you have been here since it was 'Eric's site' (more fanboy one-upmanship?) I don't even understand the allusion. :/

Once again I am not slamming ENWorld, I am sure it is a wonderful site, I am just happier posting where I feel comfortable. Which is why I was answering the OP's original posting with a dissenting view to give a glimpse into why some post on Paizo and not ENWorld.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I don't like the pathfinder forums too much because its too pathfinder. Look at the product reviews, nothing ever gets less than a 4 star. Everyone seems to think everything paizo does is golden and I just can't take that on a regular basis. I've literally read reviews in forums where someone talks about all the typos, inconsistencies and misleveling, and then still gives it a 4 star or a 5 star.

I think I am still the only person to review the Pathfinder Core Book at Paizo.com and not give it 5 stars (I gave it a 3 for multiple reasons). So I completely understand what you are saying.

 

[SSquirrel]

You say you have been here since it was 'Eric's site' (more fanboy one-upmanship?) I don't even understand the allusion. :/

No it wasn't trying to one-up, it was just providing a bit of history. The site started out as Eric Noah's 3rd Edition site and was started a year prior to the release of 3E. All the previews that came out were gathered here, all news and rumors came thru here. Then it turned into a headquarters of all things d20. Then it was sold to Morrus and became ENWorld. (I think this is vaguely how it all proceeded)

I just was saying that b/c I've been aroundo n teh site awhile and have watched how the forum organization has progressed, it makes sense to me. If I was new to the site, I don't know how it would look and I can't really view it thru those eyes.

I changed my "Community Supporter" tag to say "Squirrely Dad" and I don't tend to pay much attention to the stuff on the side unless I'm really bored. Maybe I'm not typical, wouldn't be the first time, but I would be perfectly happy with text only, character limited sigs.