Why I'm done with 4e

[fuzzlewump]

As in, if you ask "why do encounter powers work this way?", valid answers include "because it's makes a better story" and "because it's more balanced," but generally not "because it's a approximation of how the world works."

Good point. Thanks for the correction.

Oh yes, and a good DM should certainly toss the rules out on their ear and use this kind of system to correctly respond to the narrative flow of the game any and every time it is appropriate. But if the main rules of the game must be thrown out on their ear as a regular part of quality play, then maybe a different system should be considered

Definitely agree here, but if the next line is 'go to 3E'-- then- what? Since when is 3E rules light and narrative focused? Like I've been saying, fair criticism against D&D in general, but to criticize the choice of 4E alone makes it seem like you're either your ignoring what I thought was your system of choice, 3E, or you actually are arguing from the stand point of White Wolf Games. (I'm actually ignorant here, White Wolf Games are generally more narrative focused right? If not, insert better example here.)

 

[SteveC]

You have a strange fascination with this meaningless thread.

As it's my first post to it, I'd say perhaps not. When stuff like this gets necro'd, after a well deserved trip to the back pages of the forum, and we get to do the timewarp all over again, it sometimes makes sense to me to question why. What are we going to accomplish by doing this all over again for the n+1 time?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

What are we going to accomplish by doing this all over again for the n+1 time?

You seem to be under the impression that the conversation must necessarily lead to some outcome, as opposed to merely being a conversation for its own sake.

Which makes your own late-breaking and meaningless commentary unusual.

Unless the goal you are attempting to accomplish is to shut down the conversation for the n+1th time, the best way for to avoid such meaninglessness is to avoid the thread.

Am I wrong? I mean, we're 3 years into the new edition, as you astutely pointed out. What are you trying to accomplish by asking folks what they are trying to accomplish?

 

[Obryn]

What are we going to accomplish by doing this all over again for the n+1 time?

The destruction and complete humiliation of our enemies. Duh.

EDIT:

What are you trying to accomplish by asking folks what they are trying to accomplish?

The destruction and complete humiliation of his enemies. Duh.

-O

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I have a serious simulationist streak, so things like encounter/daily martial powers bug me. The common explanation is that they're 'activated crits,' but then why does my character strategize around supposedly random events? I mean, if they were really random within the game world why do 75% of the same line-up of 2-8 crit effects happen during the first few rounds of every fight, and only against strategically advantageous foes?

This is one of the reasons I like using the Exalted setting to run 4e. It has a built-in explanation for all of D&D's wackiness: all PCs and serious foes are made of magical awesomeness. Which is why they can all do wacky stuff a certain number of times per 5 minutes/day: it's magic!

Anyway, even without Exalted, 4e's elegant balance far outweighs its marginally lesser focus on simulation than other editions. As always, YMMV.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm just saying, it's a little unusual to barge into a conversation that doesn't interest you, merely to tell the participants that the topic of their conversation is meaningless and doesn't interest you, and they therefore (I suppose) need to talk about something else...?

I'm guessing that is an internet-only kind of etiquette-- but I'd pay good money to see how that goes over in real life.

 

[SteveC]

I'm just saying, it's a little unusual to barge into a conversation that doesn't interest you, merely to tell the participants that the topic of their conversation is meaningless and doesn't interest you, and they therefore (I suppose) need to talk about something else...?

I'm guessing that is an internet-only kind of etiquette-- but I'd pay good money to see how that goes over in real life.

Since you asked, I'll tell you: I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't talk about. I do notice, however, that when threads like this crop up, the signal to noise ratio on this site goes positively into the tank for several days, and also a couple of posters commonly end up getting banned for a week or decide to leave the site entirely in disgust. That's the problem. More talk about the awesome, less about how encounter powers stretch believability would be my preference. I find that some of the posters in this thread who I agree with on 98% of other topics and love to discuss things with simply won't let this go and will be real jerks to people who under other circumstances they get along with.

In real life, when I'm with a group of friends who start talking about politics or religion or any number of things that we aren't allowed to talk about here, sometimes a topic comes up that is just going to get people ticked off, and can't ever be resolved. Maybe it's healthcare or the election or, well, you name it. When I'm there for that, I very much do try and steer the discussion away from that topic, especially if I know that "John" and "Dave," who are normally very nice people, are going to come to blows and we're going to have to call the cops to separate them.

If that doesn't work, I end up getting out of there before trouble starts, which is entirely what I intend to do in this thread. ENWorld is a community of great people, but discussions like this bring out the worst in some of us, me included. So you got a real life explanation without even having to pay for it.

--Steve

 

[WizarDru]

Telling me why you don't like 4E, especially if your reasons for hating it are precisely some of the things I think improved it over 3X is meaningless as we approach three years of the game being out.

Didn't 4e launch in June 2008? That would mean we're less than one-and-a-half years out. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point, just clarifying the game's only been out half the time you said.

For my group, we didn't even try running our first 4E game until 6 months after publication, so we've only been playing for a year.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Fair point, Steve.

 

[Scribble]

I'm guessing that is an internet-only kind of etiquette-- but I'd pay good money to see how that goes over in real life.

Nah that kind of stuff happens in RL all the time.

I have a friend who constantly bitches about stuff he either can't change, or just doesn't bother to change. A lot of us at this point stop him before he gets started but sometimes he finds someone new to start up with... Usually someone who is aware of his bitchfest history will break in and just say "Dude, seriously give it a rest."

I see the same type of things at work, when people are bitching about their workload, or management decisions or something. Eventually some people just start saying "ENOUGH ALREADY! Move on, or quit, or do whatever you plan to do about it, but stop annoying me with your constant complaining!"

People angry about a situation sometimes think that complaining about it all the time to random other people who don't have the power to change the situation will in some way shape or form help I guess.

What's worse is it tends to be ALL they focus on. Every time someone brings up any topic no matter how unrelated they find a way to bring things back to whatever it is they're angry about.

In reality it just really annoys the people who:

A. Don't agree with the complainers standpoint,

B. Don't really care that much, or

C. Might have cared, but don't feel EVERYTHING has to be related to the anger.

Maybe they feel that if they complain enough, it will get everyone upset enough to cause a change in some way? I don't know.

To each his own I guess, but I do tend to be in the "quit your bitchin and DO something about it if it really bothers you that much" camp.

(If all I wanted to do was talk about last nights episode of LOST, and you somehow found a way to work in your complaints about the new account that was added to your BoB, it's going to annoy the hell out of me...)