Things that WOW didn't invent

[ExploderWizard]

You know, having just got back from a two-day business excellence conference, the real perversity of it just struck me: normally, adapting good practices from successful companies is considered a good thing.

If the adaptation resulted in what you believe to be negative consequences, then state what you think the negative consequences are. Why is there such a pervasive perception that similarity is bad?

The WOW formula for success is simple in concept. As a lot of failed projects have proven, success in one medium does not automatically guarantee the same success in another. I don't have any data but I am willing to go out on a limb and say that PnP game products based on the WOW IP are not topping the charts in sales.

I like playing WOW. It is a source of fairly cheap always available entertainment. I would not really be interested in running a WOW like game on the tabletop. I play roleplaying games to satisfy different needs than those provided by WOW so an attempt to duplicate the experience would start with epic fail and only get worse from there.

I play roleplaying games to experience face to face interaction with my friends. Sometime we play WOW together also but the experience isn't the same. The fun is found partially because the experience is unlike that of a video game. Trying to make an rpg play more like a videogame (even a really fun one I enjoy) is not the way to go.

PnP games cannot compete with the videogame medium in the instant gratification fun contest. It is a losing battle. The PnP market is much smaller than the videogame market and thats just the way it is. Trying to pry a die hard video gamer away from the computer or console with some books and dice isn't going to work. There is a reason only mainstream movies with broad appeal get large distributions and smaller indie films only play in art houses.

I understand the desire for companies to get a slice of the MMO revenue pie any way they can. The way to do that is to produce another such game and make it better than the competition. D&D is popular as a brand because people like the game. Changing the nature of the game changes the brand.

So good practices are sometimes product type specific.

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't think WoW, or on an even broader scope, Blizzard invented anything at all.

What Blizzard is good at is taking a good idea and implementing it in a way that let's it shine. Diablo is nothing but a highly-polished, modernized Rogue clone. But it's brilliant!

Similarly, WoW is nothing but a best-of show of everything that's been done before in other MMORPGs or even MUDs.

And to the annoying comparisons between WoW and 4E I have to say this:
I'm not a fan of WoW but I am a fan of 4E. Therefore, while 4E may have been inspired in part by WoW it's definitely a different beast.

Actually, I think, I see more of the influence of Guild Wars in 4E. But again, the source of good ideas doesn't matter if the execution is well done.

If WoW were to actually invent something cool, then by all means, if it would also work well in a pen & paper RPG, steal the idea and use it in 4E!

 

[Theroc]

When I first looked at 4E, I definitely felt the "It feels like a videogame" vibe. However, as I looked more at the system, I also realized that it wasn't necessarily bad, just different.

There are things I like and dislike about anything I do, really, so the fact that sometimes immersion might be difficult isn't really a major issue, especially since I don't precisely see the immersion issue. Healing Surges could very easily be described as an adrenaline rush or some other thing. It's all how you view things.

I enjoy 3.X, I enjoy Diablo II, I enjoy 4E thus far, I enjoyed WoW(Though I enjoyed Mythic's Warhammer Online more)

I don't claim to have the analytical knowhow to know what influenced what. I just know most of them let me get a bit into an escape from reality into a 'fantastic' world where I can do something I cannot do in reality without major repercussions: Kill things and take their stuff.

Edit: Also, I agree that Blizzard is a master of integrating 'cool' stuff into their games from just about anywhere. While sometimes I get a really negative feel for them about how they handle things in WoW, I do know I've immensely enjoyed their products, despite all the aggravations those products caused me at other times.

 

[Doug McCrae]

PnP games cannot compete with the videogame medium in the instant gratification fun contest.

MMOs aren't about instant gratification though, quite the reverse. They are time sinks. It takes a lot of time and effort to get to max level and a huge amount more to get the best loot, acquire rare mounts, etc. And this is by design, of course. Blizz wants us to play for years and years, not 20 hours.

What videogames such as WoW do provide is not instant gratification but a low barrier to entry. You just type in your toon's name, choose race and class and almost immediately you are in Elwynn Forest, killing kobolds.

In this respect MMOs are actually closer to the pre-3e versions of D&D, which also allowed faster character generation. Also, prior to 2e you weren't expected to do all that tedious roleplaying, coming up with a character history, a name that fitted the campaign world and wasn't just an anagram of your own and so forth. Again, this is closer to the videogame approach than the more modern versions of D&D.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

WoW HAS revolutionized a lot. But all the revolutions are purely in the MMO department, not in the P&P department.

For example, alternate forms of resource management. Pre-WoW, everyone had mana (Or no abilities at all). And that was it. WoW brought in Energy, Rage, and the Death Knight mechanic that I don't know because I quit before it came out . Now multiple MMOs have different classes that utilize different forms of resource management. But that started in WoW.

Furthermore, before any other MMO decided to do so - and most still don't do so - Blizzard decided to even out both factions as far as mechanics go. Alliance got shamans, Horde got paladins. There were still a few small mechanic changes, but MOST of the mechanics were equalized. Compare this with the hilariously massive failure of Warhammer Online.

There's a lot of other changes, but the point here is that WoW DID engineer a lot of new stuff for it's time. A lot of games just cribbed it immidiately afterward, though, so it's somewhat forgettable.

As for Starcraft/40k, that's less Blizzard copying, more 40k fans thinking they have ownership of space marines, space elves, and space bugs. It's like Anne Rice claiming she has ownership of vampires.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

For example, alternate forms of resource management. Pre-WoW, everyone had mana (Or no abilities at all). And that was it. WoW brought in Energy, Rage, and the Death Knight mechanic that I don't know because I quit before it came out .

The Death Knight mechanics are actually very interesting, and might even be something to think about in games very different from WoW.

It's actually a dual resource system incorporating 6 runes of 3 types used in particular combinations to power spells which in turn fills a separate power bar that can be burned on other abilities. Very interesting in theory, but in practice it lends itself to a rotation that maximizes damage per strike and power generation. Use up your runes in whichever way is best for your talent spec, and then while they are on cooldown dump your power bar into whatever spells will give you the most damage. It is, however, WAY better than rage and more interesting than energy, since you have multiple resources to track. I hope they use it for more classes in the future and that other games pick up on good ways to do something similar.

The runes aspect would actually lend itself very well to a 4e type game. Instead of having at will, encounter, and daily powers, you have abilities that require specific runes to use. The runes themselves recharge during battles, between battles, or daily. You can use an ability as long as you have the right runes for it, but once you burn your daily "Rune of the Northern Wind" you can't use any of the powers that require it until the next day.

Something like that might add some of the complexity of long term planning back that some people miss with casters in 4e. Instead of a binary choice (If I use Acid Arrow in this fight, I won't have it later) you have a more complex choice (if I use power X now, I lose access to powers P and Q, as well as cutting down on how many more times I can use E, F, and G). Could be a blast, or it could be a huge set of paralyzing choices.

I haven't played much beyond D&D in the PnP world. Has someone done something like this in the past?

 

[nightwyrm]

MMOs aren't about instant gratification though, quite the reverse. They are time sinks. It takes a lot of time and effort to get to max level and a huge amount more to get the best loot, acquire rare mounts, etc. And this is by design, of course. Blizz wants us to play for years and years, not 20 hours.

What videogames such as WoW do provide is not instant gratification but a low barrier to entry. You just type in your toon's name, choose race and class and almost immediately you are in Elwynn Forest, killing kobolds.

In this respect MMOs are actually closer to the pre-3e versions of D&D, which also allowed faster character generation. Also, prior to 2e you weren't expected to do all that tedious roleplaying, coming up with a character history, a name that fitted the campaign world and wasn't just an anagram of your own and so forth. Again, this is closer to the videogame approach than the more modern versions of D&D.

Ah yes, my glorious line of "Bob the fighter" who kept having more brothers everytime one of them died.

I would agree that WoW aren't about instant gratification, but constant gratification. Every time you played, the game feeds you a little bit, your character gets a little better, his gears gets a little better, all contributing to your addiction...

There was an article somewhere that talked about that...if only I could find it again...

 

[ExploderWizard]

MMOs aren't about instant gratification though, quite the reverse. They are time sinks.

Oh I know they are time sinks. The instant gratification comes from being able to logon anytime and just game at your own convenience. That combined with the visual eye candy means that you can enjoy playing without needing to imagine much at all. By comparison, PnP games require effort and a bit more attentiveness to what's going on. It also requires coordinating schedules with others which seems almost like work compared to plugging into WOW. Attaining specific goals such as endgame content play and certain rewards are certainly not instant, as you said.

 

[Halivar]

As for Starcraft/40k, that's less Blizzard copying, more 40k fans thinking they have ownership of space marines, space elves, and space bugs.

I have a friend that plays 40k, and swears up and down that the Terrans and Zerg are 40k rip-offs; this, despite the fact that he has read "Starship Troopers" several times.

 

[Rechan]

The intensity and frequency of the comparisons has increased, because the observation is more true of 4e than it has been of previous editions.

I disagree. I think that the intensity and frequency is because the Internet is far more populated now than when 3e was birthed.