Questions about the Sun Blade

[gonzimodo]

I'm sure these questions have come up before, but I really can't find a definitive explanation of how the Sun Blade really works.

Here is the relevant information from the SRD:
Sun Blade

This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. (In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword.) Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.
In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).


Okay, so it's a bastard sword, but it wields as a short sword. Does this prevent the use of Power Attack, since a short sword is a light weapon?


By the same token, if you use it two-handed, do you get to multiply the damage bonus for Strength by 1.5?


Assuming you can reap the benefits of two-handed use, how does the double damage vs. undead come into play if you use Power Attack? For example, if a Fighter with an 18 Strength is using a Sun Blade two-handed against evil, the normal damage is d10 + 10 (+4 for the enhancement bonus and +6 for Strength). With one point of Power Attack, this becomes d10 + 12.


Is everything simply doubled vs. undead, making the damage 2d10 + 24?



I guess I'm mostly concerned about the Power Attack damage. I think that since it is not expressed as extra damage dice, it should be doubled normally, but I'm not sure if the rules for multiplying damage (a doubled double equals a triple) come into play somehow with the two-handed wielding.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

The Sun Blade is considered at the same time as a Bastard sword and a short sword.

So you can use Power Attack with and if used as a 2-handed weapon your strength bonus is multiplied by 1.5.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Okay, so it's a bastard sword, but it wields as a short sword. Does this prevent the use of Power Attack, since a short sword is a light weapon?


By the same token, if you use it two-handed, do you get to multiply the damage bonus for Strength by 1.5?

No, because it is a short sword but wielded like a Bastardsword as well.
Yes, you can wield it 2 handed for Str bonud.

Assuming you can reap the benefits of two-handed use, how does the double damage vs. undead come into play if you use Power Attack? For example, if a Fighter with an 18 Strength is using a Sun Blade two-handed against evil, the normal damage is d10 + 10 (+4 for the enhancement bonus and +6 for Strength). With one point of Power Attack, this becomes d10 + 12.

Doubled bonus comes after you calculate everything. 2 [1d10 +10 +2] = 2 handed PA for 1 against undead.

 

[irdeggman]

No, because it is a short sword but wielded like a Bastardsword as well.
Yes, you can wield it 2 handed for Str bonus.

Doubled bonus comes after you calculate everything. 2 [1d10 +10 +2] = 2 handed PA for 1 against undead.

You got it backwards.

It appears and does damage as if a bastard sword but it is wielded as a short sword. The DMG text specifically states " . . is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use."

Hence no power attack benefits since light weapons (as is a short sword) gain no benefits from power attack.
SRD

You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies.

 

[FEADIN]

You use it as the most beneficial way for you, short sword or bastard sword with all the advantages.
Double damage is what is written, as in a critical hit: {dice + bonuses(all) x 2} + eventually extra damage dice.

 

[Shin Okada]

You got it backwards.

It appears and does damage as if a bastard sword but it is wielded as a short sword. The DMG text specifically states " . . is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use."

Hence no power attack benefits since light weapons (as is a short sword) gain no benefits from power attack.
SRD

But it also says "deals bastard sword damage". So one can argue that by raw for all the rules regarding damage, it is treated as a bastard sword. Thus, power attack is applied as if it were a bastard sword (same can be said for strength bonus, exotic weapon master class feature, etc.).

 

[frankthedm]

The RAW can be used to prevent the Sun Blade from benefiting from power attack, even though to me it seem far more logical that the weapon is supposed to get the best of both worlds. I say it would be far better and more reasonable for the DM to just disallow the Sunblade than to twist the RAW to prevent the application of power attack.

That said, i think letting the Power Attack damage bonus be multiplied by anything was a HUGE mistake.

 

[irdeggman]

You use it as the most beneficial way for you, short sword or bastard sword with all the advantages.
Double damage is what is written, as in a critical hit: {dice + bonuses(all) x 2} + eventually extra damage dice.

The DMG text does not say that at all.

It says you can use either Bastard Sword or short sword proficiency to wield and either bastard sword or short sword weapon focus/weapon specialization - but it specifically says (what I quoted) about how it is wielded.

Hence it is wielded as a light weapon due to the specific text in the DMG about the weapon (damage the base weapon does has no effect on what the weapon is wielded as - that is just because it does bastard sword damage does not mean it is wielded as if it were a bastard sword.

Now since it is treated as a "light" weapon - it qualifies for all of those nifty (lesser penalties) for an off hand weapon in 2 weapon fighting.

 

[irdeggman]

But it also says "deals bastard sword damage". So one can argue that by raw for all the rules regarding damage, it is treated as a bastard sword. Thus, power attack is applied as if it were a bastard sword (same can be said for strength bonus, exotic weapon master class feature, etc.).

Only if one is really, really stretching the text.

Bastard sword damage is just exactly what it says - read the weapon table for bastard sword and use the damage listed.

Power attack and using 2 hands on a weapon is not a function of the weapon's base but rather a function of "how one wields a weapon" - and the text is very specific on how one "wields" a sun blade.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I agree with eggman. you do bastard sword damage, but it's otherwise treated like a short sword, and thus is a light weapon, for good and for ill. You cannot power attack at all with a light weapon, and 2-handing it gives no real benefit other than maybe against being disarmed.