Help- trying to create a balanced single-class combo of cleric and bard

[FoxWander]

A player in the Pathfinder game I'm about to start would like to play a character that combines aspects of both a bard and a cleric. She likes bits of both classes but she's not too keen on just playing one or the other. She has a good character concept for a story-telling healer/leader type and we both agree that a good mix of the two classes could work. I'm just trying to find a blend of class abilities that isn't unbalanced. Something with the bard's social skills that keeps a bit of the jack-of-all-trades feel and with some bardic music abilities but with a boost to spell-casting and healing maybe via cleric domains or a limited channel energy ability.

One idea I had would be essentially a bard with d6 hit die and 4 skill points per level. Drop a few bardic performance abilities (though I'm not sure which- one of the things I need help on- but whatever would balance the rest of this as needed) but keep the other class abilities. Spells per day and known would stay the same but add the abilities and bonus spells of one cleric domain. For extra healing, add the lay on hands ability of the paladin, to include their channel positive energy ability at 4th which works off of lay on hands.

How does that look? Does it seem balanced with either class on its own? Or with other classes in general? Keep in mind this is literally the first idea I had towards the concept before I sat down to write this sometime after 2 AM- so I may be a little off due to lack of sleep. I'd appreciate any help or advice as I would really like to make this concept work. Thanks.

 

[prongbuck]

I like the idea. Could we have a peek at what the characters story is? Since there could be many ways to combine the two classes knowing what the ultimate goal is would help. For example would this character need to be capable of the same amount of healing as a cleric?

Adding or replacing some of the bards perform options is a good start. I like the idea of allowing them to channel positive energy through song, when I have my books in front of me later I will take a look at how this could be done for them right from level 1.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Unearthed Arcana has an (SRDed) divine bard and cloistered cleric (i.e. skill focused) which may be helpful as starting points.

 

[concerro]

A player in the Pathfinder game I'm about to start would like to play a character that combines aspects of both a bard and a cleric. She likes bits of both classes but she's not too keen on just playing one or the other. She has a good character concept for a story-telling healer/leader type and we both agree that a good mix of the two classes could work. I'm just trying to find a blend of class abilities that isn't unbalanced. Something with the bard's social skills that keeps a bit of the jack-of-all-trades feel and with some bardic music abilities but with a boost to spell-casting and healing maybe via cleric domains or a limited channel energy ability.

One idea I had would be essentially a bard with d6 hit die and 4 skill points per level. Drop a few bardic performance abilities (though I'm not sure which- one of the things I need help on- but whatever would balance the rest of this as needed) but keep the other class abilities. Spells per day and known would stay the same but add the abilities and bonus spells of one cleric domain. For extra healing, add the lay on hands ability of the paladin, to include their channel positive energy ability at 4th which works off of lay on hands.

How does that look? Does it seem balanced with either class on its own? Or with other classes in general? Keep in mind this is literally the first idea I had towards the concept before I sat down to write this sometime after 2 AM- so I may be a little off due to lack of sleep. I'd appreciate any help or advice as I would really like to make this concept work. Thanks.

What particular abilities are wanted from each class?

 

[Sigurd]

You might get closer to a balanced character class if you can define your goals as something other than I want two characters in one. What are the backstory and aims of the class?


Sigurd

 

[Mark Chance]

At first glance, I'd go with:

* Bard BAB, HD, and skill ranks/level.
* Lose Disguise, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth from skill list.
* Lose cantrips, distraction, suggestion, dirge of doom, well-versed, jack of all trades, frightening tune, mass suggestion, and deadly performance from bard class features.
* Add Heal to class skills.
* Make channel energy a function of bardic music.
* Add aura and orisons to class features.
* Use cleric spells per day and spell lists.
* No domains.
* Use bard weapon and armor proficiency.

 

[FoxWander]

Sorry I haven't responded in my own thread- I was finishing up a college course and couldn't be distracted. Anyway, that's done now so back to the important things in life- like gaming!

To answer the question of what particular abilities are desired- I touched on this rather abstractly in my original post. A specific list of what to lose would actually look a lot like Mark's suggested list except for jack of all trades, that one needs to stay. So here's what I'm hoping to keep from bard: Bardic knowledge, versatile performer, lore master, jack of all trades, and the performance abilities of countersong and anything that starts with "inspire".

So basically, almost exactly what Mark posted. But is that a balanced class? Essentially you'd have a cleric with no domains and no medium armor who gets more skills, the core bardic performance abilities and a variant of channel energy in exchange. Is that balanced? Would people playing other classes feel that it was more or less powerful, better or worse than their own class? What do you all think?

 

[Mark Chance]

But is that a balanced class? Essentially you'd have a cleric with no domains and no medium armor who gets more skills, the core bardic performance abilities and a variant of channel energy in exchange. Is that balanced? Would people playing other classes feel that it was more or less powerful, better or worse than their own class? What do you all think?

The only sure way to tell if it's balanced is to play it. If you have that you think will work, run with it for a few levels.

 

[Sigurd]

You are asking two contradictory things:

1. Give me two classes in one.
2. Give me a balanced class.

 

[Mark Chance]

You are asking two contradictory things:

1. Give me two classes in one.
2. Give me a balanced class.

Nay, nay. FoxWander is not asking for two classes in one. The request was for...

...a character that combines aspects of both a bard and a cleric.

Emphasis added.

FoxWander specifically did not just request how to combine cleric and bard, as if the goal were a gestalt character.

BTW, FoxWander, if I were to name my proposed character briefly outlined above, I'd go for Cantor.