FC1: Lilitu issues...

[bykov]

I was looking over the lilitu for a potential adventure to Shendilavri and I noticed something very incongruent....which is unfortunately typical of 3.5 editting

The ritual to transform involves a succubus to lead the ritual in a church full of mislead worshippers and then it casting Gate either by spell or scroll. Now if she were casting she would need to be a 17th level cleric. Or, if she were using Use Magic Device, she would need to hit s DC 37 on the skill check. Which in the grand scheme of things, she would be better off gaining the 17 levels of cleric.

So assuming a bare minimum 6 racial HD, this would give the succubus 23 HD. Alas, the lilitu has 14 HD and is an effective 9th level cleric.

I don't know if I am just venting or asking for insight.

Bykov.

 

[Runestar]

I agree though the fluff seems incongruent. A succubus ur-priest - now that's a caster.

 

[korjik]

You are thinking about it too much. Maybe the ritual gives a +30 circumstance bonus to the UMD check

 

[Ahnehnois]

For a succubus to actually have enough caster levels to cast Gate is implausible. However, you don't need to be 17th level to use a scroll. There is a caster level check, which has a DC of the scroll's CL +1 (SRD). It's not all that hard, even without help, for a mid-level cleric, and you can retry and make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid mishaps.

The text still is a bit odd to me, but you can just make the succubus whatever CL a lilitu is.

 

[Shin Okada]

With their incredibly high CHA, it will not so difficult for a succubus to have high UMD modifier. Now, give her 5+ levels of warlock class and she can take 10 on UMD checks.

Though, I largely prefer Succubus over Lilitu....

 

[freyar]

To me, this is like all those golems that require limited wish but a much lower caster level than required for the spell.

But I think Ahnehnois has the simplest idea here -- caster level check to prove worthiness or something.

 

[bykov]

I agree though the fluff seems incongruent. A succubus ur-priest - now that's a caster.

Yeah, I was looking at that combination also. Fluff-wise it meshes so well with the concept of the succubus who becomes a lilitu.

With their incredibly high CHA, it will not so difficult for a succubus to have high UMD modifier. Now, give her 5+ levels of warlock class and she can take 10 on UMD checks.

Though, I largely prefer Succubus over Lilitu....

Looking at the existing write-ups, I concur with that sentiment also. This is part of my consternation with the lilitu. Why would the succubus go through so much to lose so much, with little in return? The lilitu seems so very cart before the horse also, as it gains many of skills it needs to transform after the fact. For me, the lilitu should be a progression to an elite status under Malcanthet's domain, not a look at all I did such that I can become specialized in doing the same damn crap for eternity with only an outside chance at becoming a Radiant Sister.....no wonder they become bitter and disenchanted.

Bykov.

 

[bykov]

For a succubus to actually have enough caster levels to cast Gate is implausible. However, you don't need to be 17th level to use a scroll. There is a caster level check, which has a DC of the scroll's CL +1 (SRD). It's not all that hard, even without help, for a mid-level cleric, and you can retry and make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid mishaps.

The text still is a bit odd to me, but you can just make the succubus whatever CL a lilitu is.

The Succubus actually fails one of the requirements...

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

-The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
-The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
-The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Now granted, we are likely talking about a succubus with an elite array or hand rolled stats, but if her WIS (assuming cleric) does not meet snuff, she is religated to the DC 37 UMD.

But thank you for this tidbit, I did overlook it as I misinterpretted the second bullet point. I had read *spell* list, not 'class list'.

Bykov.

 

[javcs]

Not true - you can use UMD to emulate an ability score.
UMD check result -15 is your emulated score.

 

[Shin Okada]

Can't a succubus just claim to be emulating spell-casting ability of Favored Soul? Then she can use her CHA to qualify ability score requirement.

Also, Gate is also in Sor/Wiz spell list. So if she uses an arcane scroll of Gate, she can use her Int or Cha to qualify the ability score requirement.