Goodman Games solicits input

[Filcher]

There's a large group of people who wants 4e DCCs. There might be a large group of people who want Pathfinder DCCs.

Why not sell to both of them and just have an even larger group of customers who want DCCs?

This.

Not this:

You want to sell chocolate AND strawberry ice cream?! For shame, good sir! For shame!

 

[BryonD]

I've said it before. None of the features of 4E make it a good fit for 3PPs.
Easier to DM. Minimized prep time. Casual player appeal. The math works.
Etc etc etc

If you want simple and quick, then a stack of books with wotc on the cover isn't going to appeal, and some other guys ideas will lag well behind wotc.

None of that means that 4E is in any way not a super awesome fun game to play. It is a super awesome fun game to play that also sucks for establishing a strong 3PP marketplace. And no, the fact that YOU love 3PP stuff for your 4E game does not change that end result.

Goodman makes really good ready to run adventures. And that fits right into the wheelhouse of 4E appeal. If anyone can survive in that sparse environment, its Joseph. He got a lot of ranks in Survival and Favored Terrain: GSL Marketplace.

 

[keterys]

It'd be an interesting experiment to try on one book. With print on demand and creative publishing, you could even set it up so all the stat sheets could be printed or substituted with a little work.

I don't understand why so many people think a 4e encounter couldn't turn into a 3e (or whatever) encounter. There are hurdles going the other way, in terms of needing areas of a certain size and a minimum number of combatants, but you could always play 3e (or 2e or 1e etc) with several combatants at once. Even at 1st level, having a fight with six goblins was extraordinarily viable.

I suspect that if folks are willing to not worry about specific feats and specific spells on monsters (I know I am, but can't speak for others), you could even translate many statblocks wholesale without too much effort. Basically at certain tier gaps you'd need to make sure you dealt with certain problems - ie, like flying PCs happen earlier on in 3e, short range teleports earlier in 4e (though only by a couple levels), and for higher level adventures you'd need to put different thought into dealing with divinations and such.

But eh, doesn't sound too bad for most modules.

 

[lmpjr007]

I'm curious as to why you choose to use so strong a language towards another publisher and competitor?

Is there a backstory that would put your strong reaction in some kind of perspective? If not, then I'll just say that I find your comments ill-considered and uncalled for./M

Sorry but I call them like I see them. He made several commments that were not just false, but outright lies which I pointed out.

 

[keterys]

I'm pretty willing to believe that if he said he was making money with 4e, that he was making money with 4e. Just like I'm willing to believe Clark that he didn't think he'd make enough money with 4e.

It's interesting that you're leaping to calling him a bald-faced liar, and sidestepping the board rules on language and conduct by just linking to your post elsewhere. You're a professional (RPG maker). Be professional (attitude).

 

[aboyd]

As a few observant people might have noticed, I'm pretty much uninterested in 4E and quite a big 3E purist. I'm still actively buying up 3.5 edition products on Drive Thru RPG. So I understand, Louis, that you could be pissed by Goodman's about-face. I'm on the OGL side of the equation. However, wouldn't it be better to take an "I told you so" attitude than a "FOAD" attitude? Let Goodman come back into the fold. If he does well, great, more viability for 3.5, Pathfinder, and the rest. If he compromises so much that his output is crap, well, then let him suffer the same fate as other 3PP failures.

I'd really want to judge him based upon product. I liked his 3.5 edition modules, so I bought them. I had no interest in his 4th edition modules, so I did not buy them. If he makes more 3.5 edition modules, I will buy or not based solely upon appeal.

Of course, if you're angry with him because you feel that his earlier comments actively undermined your market and cost you dollars, then I would say that such anger is very understandable. However, I didn't really get that from your blog entry. If you're just pissed that he hit you in the pocket book, maybe say that.

Now one last thing:

“2008: Most, but not all, of the RPG market converts to 4E. Market is now split between 4E and many varieties of 3E holdouts. Other systems proliferate, including Hackmaster Basic and the 1E retro-clones. "Old-school" goes mainstream. Goodman Games remains the only "d20 company" still primarily supporting WotC D&D.”

I am sorry but WTF?!?!??!?!?! Only “D20 Company” still primarily supporting WotC D&D. Joseph, I respect you as a business man and gamer, but that is complete and you know it. When you heard about 4E you we down with WOTC quicker than a $2 whore. Looks like some revisionist history to me.

I don't understand this bit of your blog. Goodman seems to be saying, "I stuck with 4th edition." You seem to reply, "No, you stuck with 4th edition!" I don't get it.

If I say "The sky is blue," and you reply, "No, it's blue," then it sounds like you're disagreeing, but you're not.

Maybe you can help me understand the nuance you were going for?

 

[darjr]

Sorry but I call them like I see them. He made several commments that were not just false, but outright lies which I pointed out.

Uh... really?!?!

Joe Goodman seems like such a great guy. What did he do to deserve this?

 

[jaerdaph]

I don't understand this bit of your blog. Goodman seems to be saying, "I stuck with 4th edition." You seem to reply, "No, you stuck with 4th edition!" I don't get it.

If I say "The sky is blue," and you reply, "No, it's blue," then it sounds like you're disagreeing, but you're not.

Yeah, I noticed that too in a couple spots and was a little confused as well...

 

[Snoweel]

I didn't think it appropriate to use that type of graphic language on this forum.

No that should be fine to post here.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Assuming it wouldn't horribly raise the printing costs, I'd prefer having an appendix at the back for converting to various RPG systems, possibly with perforated edges to be able to have the stat blocks right there while the adventure is open.