Multiclassing Questions

[FireLance]

Before hand, Thank you Firelance that give's me allot to work with and gives more information than the link!!!

You're welcome.

Actually I think I found a site that explains it pretty good : The Core Mechanic: 4E Multiclassing : How To but he asks a question in here he's not sure of. It looks like at level 4,8, and 10, is when you get the swap option, but he asks can you take the swap options more than once per type? Like 2 encounter swaps, or 2 daily swaps.

Usually, you can take a feat only once, unless the feat says you can take it more than once. Since the Novice Power, Acolyte Power and Adept Power feats don't say this, you can take each of them only once.

But i'm not clear on how the swap works? Because from what i'm understanding is lets say you take the EncounterExampleA, then later you take the swap encounter feat, i'm understanding this means that at that point I can swap the EncounterExampleA for a different druid encounter, or a cleric encounter (cleric primary), but what about swapping back? Can this be done at a certian time or is it a 1 time swap?

When you take a power swap feat, you lose a power from your original class (in this case, cleric) and take a power of the same level or lower from your multiclass class (in this case, druid). Any time you level up, you can retrain and change one choice you have previously made, such as a choice of power or a choice of feat. So, if you want your original power back, any time you level up, you can retrain the power swap feat to something else.

Alternatively, you can retain the power swap feat but swap a power of a different level. For example, at 4th level, you swapped a 3rd-level cleric encounter attack power for a 3rd-level druid encounter attack power. At 5th level, you can swap a 1st-level cleric encounter attack power for a 1st-level druid encounter attack power instead. You lose the 3rd-level druid encounter attack power and regain the 3rd-level cleric encounter attack power. This is an extra benefit of the power swap feats and does not count as retraining. You can do this in addition to retraining another character choice, although if you still want a druid power, you shouldn't retrain the power swap feat!

Otherwise, if you want to change the druid power you took previously to another druid power, you can also do so any time you level up. For example, you could change a 3rd-level druid power for another 3rd-level druid power. Again, this does not count as retraining.

If you have gained a higher-level cleric power after levelling up, you may also immediately swap that for a druid power of the same level or lower and regain your previous cleric power. Let's say you previously swapped a 3rd-level cleric encounter attack power for a 3rd-level druid encounter attack power. When you reach 7th level and gain a new 7th-level cleric encounter attack power, you may swap that for a 7th-level druid encounter attack power. If you do so, you lose your 3rd-level druid encounter attack power and get back your 3rd-level cleric encounter attack power. As with the last two cases, this does not count as retraining.

 

[Destil]

You can actually get your powers pretty close to half and half with multiclassiing. If you take a paragon path from your 2nd class you'll end up with two encounter and daily powers from both 'classes' along with two of your 7 utilities coming from the second class. Plus possibly some weakened features from the multiclass feats. Also, while you can only have a single multiclass, you can take more than one multiclass feat from that class: for example there's two basic Ranger multiclass feats - Warrior of the Wild (which gives you Hunter's Quarry once per encounter) and Two-Blade Warrior (Which lets you wield a non-off-hand weapon in your second hand when dual wielding). A character can take both of these to get both benefits.

Feats are another good reason to take a muilti-class, as there's some pretty decent class feats out there these days that you don't need to be a member of the class to get the benefit from. Sudden Roots, for example, is a warden feat that makes your opportunity attacks slow opponents, but since there's no real restriction build into the feat anyone who wants to be a bit more sticky can take a warden multiclass feat and then this.

Also, paragon multiclassing is a bit weak, but the splatbooks up until Primal Power had multiclass feats that reqired it and gave access to potent class features in almost full form (like the Sorcerer's damage bonus with arcane powers).

I build a hybrid human bard|rogue who paragon multiclassed into sorcerer this weekend when converting a character from another system, and I was pretty surprised how much I liked the 4E version. One at-will from each class and all of his options for attack were pretty potent because they either allow sneak-attack or the above mentioned feat's Dex bonus to damage (in additon to Cha).

 

[Danceofmasks]

There are a few exceptions to the rules.

Bards, for instance, can take multiclass feats from more than 1 class ...

Half Elves have access to Versatile Master feat (paragon tier), which makes their dilettante power at-will, as well as 'breaking' paragon multiclassing by allowing the power choices at level 11, 12, and 20 to come from any class.

Half Elf Bards are even crazier ... they can take Combat Virtuoso to use charisma instead of the power's stated stat when resolving attack rolls, and this applies to their dilettante power, any powers from multiclass feats (including power swapped), and powers from paragon multiclassing.

So ... I guess the point is, Half Elf Bards can have powers from over a half dozen classes and still make them work. More or less.

 

[DracoSuave]

Also, paragon multiclassing is a bit weak

That depends on the quality of a paragon path you'd want for your character concept. Some people consider 'Have Twin-Strike as an at-will' to be extremely powerful. And some people consider 'Sleep' to be far better than any daily you could get from any Paragon Path, and make up for the lack of features.

The ability to select the absolute best powers from a class is nothing to snark at. It's certainly a viable choice.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Yeah well, paragon multiclassing isn't in itself weak .. it certainly has its uses.
The fact that it requries all 3 power swap feats hurts, though.

 

[Rothe_]

Note that for the example character (Cleric multiclassing into druid) the multiclassing is not too useful compared to doing the reverse (Druid going into cleric).

A druid multiclassing into cleric gets one healing word (really good ability) and can swap for some cleric goodies (utilities and dailies are really good from cleric).
By choosing well, you can avoid the need for an implement, or just get a holy symbol that is a slotless item.

A cleric multiclassing into druid cannot really get much use out of wild shape, although for RP purposes it is pretty cool. The single at-will is not going to help much, as a cleric prefers to fight with his implement or weapon.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Also, while you can only have a single multiclass, you can take more than one multiclass feat from that class: for example there's two basic Ranger multiclass feats - Warrior of the Wild (which gives you Hunter's Quarry once per encounter) and Two-Blade Warrior (Which lets you wield a non-off-hand weapon in your second hand when dual wielding). A character can take both of these to get both benefits.

One thing to note though is that some of the multiclass feats have the requirement that you're Paragon Multiclassing into the second class. For example, there's a feat in Martial Power that gives you the entire Combat Superiority class feature of the Fighter (+WIS to OA's, stop movement on a hit), provided you're Paragon Multiclassing into a Fighter. So just make sure to check the prereqs on multiclass powers when you're looking at them.

 

[tiornys]

Also worth noting: the finalized Hybrid rules release in a week. Hybrid is a lot more like having multiple classes (two) than the multiclass rules, which are more about dabbling.

t~

 

[Stuntman]

The other members have given good explanations of how multiclassing works. I'll just add that you are not required to take all of those power swap and any additional multiclass feats if you choose not to. If you are only interested in perhaps a utility power, you can simply take the one class specific feat and then take the Acolyte Power feat to swap a utility power and be done with it. How much of the second classes abilities is up to you. If you want more, you take more feats and can choose the paragon multiclassing option instead of choosing a paragon path.

There are additional class specific feats available in the power books that you can take in place of or in addition to the ones in the PH1. You do not have to take them if you do not want to.

Also, since you qualify as that class for prerequisites, you can take feats or paragon paths or even epic destinies of that class as well. Some players may simply take one MC feat so they can take a paragon path of that class.

 

[Ashodin]

NEVERMIND, i was tryign to choose Next, instead of Choose Feat! Ignore please lol. (keeping it posted incase anyoen else has this problem lol)

Thank you all for the Information... But i'm having a bit of a problem with the D&D Charcacter builder. I'm running a 2 player camp with a friend. And I'm building up a druid. I hit level 4 and decided i wanted to multiclass rogue, I tired to take the mutliclass feat Sneak of Shadows. figured it would be nice to do a sneak attack with some of my beast attacks (not sure if thats permitted yet lol).

But... I it's not allowing me to choose it as my feat, even though I get a feat this level. I meet the prereq of 13 dex. Any one know why this might be?