Bard Versatile Performance

[pawsplay]

I have decided, I just don't like the bard's versatile performance ability. It causes a bard played from 1st level to look, most likely, different than one that springs to life at 10th. It brings up all sorts of hard to adjudicate questions about skill bonuses (can you use an item that increases Bluff, or do you need one that increases Perform?). It doesn't seem to really explain how or why this skill replaces the normal skills. Finally, it kind of straightjackets bards into being multi-performers, whereas many bard concepts seem like they would center around just two or three Perform skills.

Although it's dreadfully boring, I wonder why the bard didn't just get skill bonuses similar to a fighter's weapon bonuses.

 

[Nikosandros]

I also dislike versatile performance and I got rid of it. What I did was to raise the skill points to 8 and give bards one rank in the perform skill for free at each level; I also reverted to the 3.0 rules for perform, I was never very happy with the 3.5 revision and in Pathfinder, there is but a single bard power that distinguishes between different kinds of perform.

 

[Sigurd]

This was talked about on the Paizo boards. I expect it may get a clarification at some stage.

James interpreted it pretty generously. The skill being used is the bard skill. Circumstantial bonuses still work. He even thought there should be some way for the bard to redeploy any overlapping skill points ie if you had to put some points in a skill that is now covered by Vers Perf you should be able to move those points.

I agree that the system is a little awkward but it makes the perform skills much more important and it is a sort of time released maturing bonus.

I think the design goal is not so much the skills the versatile performance covers but bringing value to the performance skills which are otherwise sort of 'meh'. Any solution should say 'bard' and not rogue.


Sigurd

 

[James Jacobs]

Versatile Performance's design goal was to give bards more skill points without artificially increasing their total skill points AND to put an emphasis onto the Perform skill for them after the Perform skill's importance regarding bardic performance lessened from its importance in 3.5's version.

The result isn't perfect, alas. And it's something that I very much would like to see addressed in FAQs or errata or, most likely, in the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide.

The two basic elements: bards should be able to "reschedule" their skill ranks in skills that Versatile Performance duplicates every time the gain a new Versatile Performance; this allows a bard to be good at, say, Fly and Acrobatics until he gets Versatile Performance (dance), and once he DOES get that, lets him reapply skill points previously spent on Fly and Acrobatics to other skills. This'd work similarly to how sorcerers get to repick spells periodically.

The other element is that when you use Versatile Performance to use a Perform skill for another skill, bonuses you'd get to that other skill from things like Skill Focus or other Feats, racial modifiers, magic items, and the like SHOULD apply to your Perform skill check when you're using it for those particular versatile skills. In effect, Versatile Performance gives you a pair of "phantom skills" with the corresponding "phantom skill points" each time you gain it.

If instead you want to just kill the Versatile Performance ability entirely, my suggested fix would be instead to increase the base skill ranks per level granted to bards by 2 each time they would normally gain Versatile Performance. These skill rank increases should probably be retroactive.

ANYway. It's something that I might call a personal crusade to get fixed. Might be a while before it sees print, but them's my thoughts, anyway.

 

[pawsplay]

The two basic elements: bards should be able to "reschedule" their skill ranks in skills that Versatile Performance duplicates every time the gain a new Versatile Performance; this allows a bard to be good at, say, Fly and Acrobatics until he gets Versatile Performance (dance), and once he DOES get that, lets him reapply skill points previously spent on Fly and Acrobatics to other skills. This'd work similarly to how sorcerers get to repick spells periodically.

I think that's a given.

The other element is that when you use Versatile Performance to use a Perform skill for another skill, bonuses you'd get to that other skill from things like Skill Focus or other Feats, racial modifiers, magic items, and the like SHOULD apply to your Perform skill check when you're using it for those particular versatile skills.

If you could use any and all bonuses together, within the normal stacking rules, that would be a nice bonus for the bard, although there are probably unholy combinations I haven't considered. And there is something a little weird about using Charisma to modify an Acrobatics check.

My personal inclination is to turn Versatile Performance into "get five extra skill ranks that must go into Perform skills." Additionally, a bard might gain +1 to any Perform check if they have just made a successful Perform check with a different speciality, the bonus increasing +1 every five levels or so. Or something like that.

In any case, the Perform skill is too resource intensive at this point, is the basic problem.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Maybe in the same way spells are too resource intensive for wizards?

 

[pawsplay]

Maybe in the same way spells are too resource intensive for wizards?

Spells do stuff. There isn't a whole of difference between a flute-playing bard, a lute-playing bard, and a bard who plays both flute and flute, yet they also cost a substantial number of skill ranks.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Spells do stuff. There isn't a whole of difference between a flute-playing bard, a lute-playing bard, and a bard who plays both flute and flute, yet they also cost a substantial number of skill ranks.

Right, but with James' statement regarding the intent (re-allocate skill points once the bard gets a Performance to cover them) the Perform skills do stuff too - give the Bard the ability to be the Skill Monkey he truly should be.

 

[Mark Chance]

Wouldn't it be easier for Versatile Performance to just give bards bonus skill points applied to the relevant skills? So, at 2nd level, a bard that applies Verastile Performance to Perform (act) would get a bonus skill point applied to both Bluff and Disguise.

 

[pawsplay]

Wouldn't it be easier for Versatile Performance to just give bards bonus skill points applied to the relevant skills? So, at 2nd level, a bard that applies Verastile Performance to Perform (act) would get a bonus skill point applied to both Bluff and Disguise.

Interesting idea... Fantasy Craft uses this mechanic in spots.