Does the swordmage marking power suck?

[yesnomu]

According to the compendium, Nature's Wrath is a free action. So they can mark multiple opponents and attack one of them with a str vs fort attack when they attack an ally. It sounds like the warden's marking ability is alot better than even the fighters ability.

Not even a bit: The Warden can't punish shifting. Granted, they can prevent it with some guardian forms...

I've played Shielding and Assault Swordmages, and they were both fun. As noted, the optimal strategy is to mark one enemy and then go off and attack another--one reason Assaultmages are not quite as good as their shielding brethren is that they have to leave the enemy they're attacking at the moment to go punish their marked target.

In contrast, playing a shielding swordmage can feel like cheating at times, it works so well. My DM became very... bothered... when I informed him that my mark never went away, no matter how far away I went. His poor, useless elite...

 

[Nifft]

In contrast, playing a shielding swordmage can feel like cheating at times, it works so well. My DM became very... bothered... when I informed him that my mark never went away, no matter how far away I went. His poor, useless elite...

His Elite does have the option to charge across the battlefield to get your Swordmage... which is when having both a Swordmage and a Fighter in the party becomes oh so much fun.

Cheers, -- N

 

[yesnomu]

His Elite does have the option to charge across the battlefield to get your Swordmage... which is when having both a Swordmage and a Fighter in the party becomes oh so much fun.

Cheers, -- N

I should have mentioned there was a barbarian in the way!

But that does raise a good point, in that Swordmages tend to do better in parties with another defender. I'd only recommend a Shielding one as a party's sole defender, and even then I wouldn't be totally comfortable.

 

[Nifft]

I should have mentioned there was a barbarian in the way!

But that does raise a good point, in that Swordmages tend to do better in parties with another defender. I'd only recommend a Shielding one as a party's sole defender, and even then I wouldn't be totally comfortable.

Eh, having another Defender is party-dependent. If you have squishies, you may want another Defender. But there's no requirement to have squishies!

I could easily see a "hardened" party, where everyone has a high-ish AC, doing just fine without any Defenders. Adding in a Shielding Swordmage to such a party wouldn't hurt at all.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

You can't have two marks, though, right? So how does another defender make any difference (as opposed to any other class with OA benefits and such)?

 

[Nifft]

You can't have two marks, though, right? So how does another defender make any difference (as opposed to any other class with OA benefits and such)?

1/ Fighters stop movement on an OA, not using a Mark. Thus, my Fighter comments.

2/ Many encounters feature more than one opponent. For Solo encounters, you have a point. For all other encounters, not so much.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

2/ Many encounters feature more than one opponent. For Solo encounters, you have a point. For all other encounters, not so much.

Cheers, -- N

This. Defenders are one of those roles you want to double up on, before Controllers or Strikers, and yes, even before Leaders.

 

[Nifft]

This. Defenders are one of those roles you want to double up on, before Controllers or Strikers, and yes, even before Leaders.

IMHO this is also party-dependent.

I'd love to see a group of all Leaders & Strikers, or even a party of all Leaders (whose buff synergy could lead to everyone doing Striker damage anyway).

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

IMHO this is also party-dependent.

I'd love to see a group of all Leaders & Strikers, or even a party of all Leaders (whose buff synergy could lead to everyone doing Striker damage anyway).

Cheers, -- N

Be a pretty squishy group!

But pretty much any group -can- work... Defenders work by making the Leaders more efficient at what they do. The synergy isn't one-sided in a balanced group.

Which isn't to say that your group wouldn't be fun times... it would.

 

[Nifft]

Be a pretty squishy group!

Nah, it depends on the specific characters picked.

Here's a non-squishy group which needs no Defender:
- Hexhammer Warlock (self-generating Temp HP, melee & ranged threat)
- Iron Wizard (highest AC in the game, mix of ranged and Close attack powers)
- Con-based Barbarian (with the Con feat in Primal Power, he's got a fantastic AC and tons of Surges)
- Con-based Bard (multiclass into Barbarian, use Con for AC in Hide armor)
- Sticky Striker Ranger/Cleric -> Warpriest (... okay I'm cheating on this one)

Anyway, you totally can build a party where nobody is squishy, not even the Wizard. In those parties, a Defender is not needed -- but can be valuable as another de-buff.

Cheers, -- N