What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

[I'm A Banana]

If the poster would like me to choose my words carefully and not flat out say he's wrong, he can choose his own words carefully.

My grandma used to have a saying.

"I don't care who started it. I just want it finished."

A constructive conversation can require that you prioritize the conversation itself above who is right or who is wrong or wounded egos.

 

[Umbran]

While taking the high road in such a situation is commendable, it should not be expected, and the one to instigate the confrontation is the one at fault.

I beg to differ. You are always responsible for your own behavior. The other guy isn't Professor X, or something, such that he can take control of your mind. It isn't as if you have some sort of seizure, such that you cannot control yourself, is it?

We must expect the best from each other, or we shall never get it.

This is not to say that the person who was curt in the first place is not also responsible for his own actions. But you don't get to point fingers if you yourself haven't taken the high road.

 

[outsider]

"I don't care who started it. I just want it finished."

I agree. However, coddling people by never telling them they are wrong isn't going to accomplish that.

 

[scourger]

Thinking about the original post (and admitting that I have not read this entire thread), I realize that for me what's at stake with a particular edition (or game) is my stake in the hobby. The best way I can explain it is with examples. When I started gaming, I was in elementary school. I had plenty of free time and an increasing ability to understand these games. That lasted until late high school when I left it for other pursuits. Returning in college, I again had some free time and a good deal of intellectual energy to burn. When I again returned as a young professional, I had some time (although I was then married) and hence the brain power to spare. That was when I bought the most material too, as I had the most disposable income. Now, as a middle-aged professional with a family, I find that my time, effort and money just can't support such an intensive approach to gaming. I still like to get together with my long-time friends and enjoy a game every other week or so, but I just can't devote the large blocks of energy to it. It even extends to new games. I just can't get into them as I once did. So, I value the existing games that I do have and my mastery of them because I can still have fun with those older editions and games.

And this is where my stake is. I think what I see in my gaming firends is that is where their stake is, too. Some are stuck a couple of editions ago. Most all of us play for the past rather than really playing for the future. And, then one of my problems is that it all feels familiar--like I've done it before; because I probably have. What I'm really looking for is a new spin to an old record.

For me to bring a game to the table these days, it has to have 3 elements: a compelling story, cool rules, and miniatures/counters. I have a lot of material on my shelves that meets these criteria. Something new has to measure up or it just isn't worth me spending my precious resources on it.

I am not discounting that a certain edition or game has implications for narrative control and shaping the storytelling experience. It does. But, I think the reason people have something at stake in an edition (war) is more related to where thay have their stake in the game as a personal hobby. It is for me.

 

[outsider]

You are always responsible for your own behavior.

This is true, of course. My point is that if you make a contraversial and curt post, you should expect contraversial and curt replies to follow. When said replies occur, you are not a victim. Maybe they aren't doing the right thing either, but you brought it on yourself.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I agree. However, coddling people by never telling them they are wrong isn't going to accomplish that.

It isn't coddling when you look for the heart of the issue, instead of being distracted by perceived or actual factual inaccuracy.

 

[Ourph]

While taking the high road in such a situation is commendable, it should not be expected, and the one to instigate the confrontation is the one at fault.

It seems to me that the one who responds in a confrontational manner is the one at fault.

 

[Umbran]

This is true, of course. My point is that if you make a contraversial and curt post, you should expect contraversial and curt replies to follow. When said replies occur, you are not a victim. Maybe they aren't doing the right thing either, but you brought it on yourself.

There is one small difficulty with this - sometimes (often, even) in a text-only medium, it can be very, very easy to say something that you think is okay (or maybe just a touch testy), and then find yourself deluged with people who think you just purposely spat on their shoes or something.

In speaking with folks after some of the nastier Edition War skirmishes, it was found that to start with, nobody intended to be curt or controversial. They just came across that way, and people responded in kind, and things began to snowball.

After that's happened a couple of times, people are bruised, and even more likely to take offense, and feel the other side deliberately intends offense. After enough bruising, the other side really does mean offense, as they're fed up with being bruised just for having an opinion...

Whatever the stakes, it seems a great deal of the vitriol of the Edition Wars was built in this manner.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Fair enough, we didn't get it over here, in the stores, which I why I didn't know. But your original argument, which was what I quoted, said something else.

Another point is this: Compared to 2000, a lot more people buy their RPG books online and rarely show up in the gaming store. Also, the amount of people using WotC's website has dramatically increased between 2000 and 2008.

So it does make sense (IMO ofc) to have moved conversion guides to the net.

My original argument was that 3Ed had conversion guides, 4Ed didn't.

One you can't find- in your situation- or one you have no idea exists at all- my situation- is functionally the same as not having one at all.

Now, why your stores didn't have them, I can't say. Why Wizards didn't direct people to the website via non-web resources, I can- they didn't have any.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So?

As pointed out in my last post, a conversion guide- indeed, any product- you have no idea exists is (for you) functionally the same as one that doesn't exist.

By ensuring that game stores had copies of the conversion guide, WotC ensured those of that portion of the market interested in conversion had everything they needed.

No conversion guide in the stores for 4Ed meant those of their shoppers who were interested in conversion had nothing. There was also no mention of online conversion guides whatsoever in retail outlets- I know because I asked for them.

If nothing else, not letting a significant portion of your market or retailers know that there is a conversion guide online is at the very least another flaw in the 4Ed product rollout.

Fortunately they were covered in those conversion articles. Again, not perfect, but doable.

Conversion articles which obviously didn't reach a good portion of their installed base. I may be somewhat of a neo-luddite (I don't think I am, but I'm open to the possibility), but 90% of my primary game group are computer programmers...and a few of them are in the computer game subset of that industry.

IOW, this is not a bunch of technophobes- any decent publicity of those conversion guides would have popped up on their radar.