Command and Blade Barrier

[Mahlice]

I'm sure this is an Old Question, but for whatever reason I can't 'search' the forums.

The question is...

If Blade Barrier is up and in place and then I use Command (Forced movement for 3 + char bonus...so for me, total of 6.)

Blade Barrier causes damage for entering it. Does that effect each square a player or monster passes thru?

Thus if you use command to force a target to move from one end to the other of a blade barrier (5 squares possible), do they only take the 3d6 damage once, or do they take it for each square they pass thru?

As a random unrelated side note...anyone know a feat/magic item that expands the size of zones?

~Mal

 

[Jhaelen]

Thus if you use command to force a target to move from one end to the other of a blade barrier (5 squares possible), do they only take the 3d6 damage once, or do they take it for each square they pass thru?

As a random unrelated side note...anyone know a feat/magic item that expands the size of zones?

In my game: you can only take damage once during a turn.

I'm pretty sure there's a feat to expand zones. Probably paragon tier and possibly not available for everyone.

 

[Flipguarder]

1. yes.

2. yes, but they are all conditional. There is one for thunder powers, but im not sure the name.

 

[Nichwee]

I'm pretty sure there's a feat to expand zones. Probably paragon tier and possibly not available for everyone.

Wizards have Enlarge Spell, but it effects Bursts/Blasts not Zones. So it wouldn't increase the size of a Wall Of Fire, say, iirc. And it can only effect spells that roll damage dice.

 

[keterys]

For clarity, the blade barrier damage applies any time the creature isn't already in the barrier and enters a square that contains the barrier. So if you slide a creature through 6 contiguous squares of barrier, just 3d6+X once. If you slide them out, then back, then out, then back, then out, then back, then 3d6+X three times (plus again when they start their turn). Many groups consider that dirty pool and stick to a single hit of damage per turn so I'd suggest sticking to that unless in a very cutthroat game.

 

[Colmarr]

Many groups consider that dirty pool and stick to a single hit of damage per turn so I'd suggest sticking to that unless in a very cutthroat game.

To expand on this, the usual reasoning offered is that if entering the blade barrier and staying there for a full round only does 3d6, why would sliding in and out a couple of times do more damage than that.

It's a verrisimilitude argument (with the all the attendant baggage in a fantasy RPG), but IMO its a convincing one.

I'm not sure what the RAW is, and suspect Keterys probably has the right of it.

 

[Gruns]

Well...

To expand on this, the usual reasoning offered is that if entering the blade barrier and staying there for a full round only does 3d6, why would sliding in and out a couple of times do more damage than that.

Think of a normal tabletop fan. Take off the cover. Stick your finger in it. It stings a little at first (3d6!), but then it stops spinning. You can keep your finger there all you want and it wont hurt any more. Now remove your finger and put it back in 3 or 4 times non stop... 3d6 each time!

Makes sense to me! As a DM, my general rule is: if something is within the rules but on the cheesy side, if the PCs do it to the monsters, the monsters will do it to the PCs.
Later!
Gruns

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Makes sense to me! As a DM, my general rule is: if something is within the rules but on the cheesy side, if the PCs do it to the monsters, the monsters will do it to the PCs.

Yeah, except there is a distinct lack of enemies with the ability to cast both Blade Barrier and Command. And making up enemies with those powers (or similar ones) just creates a cold war. It's not a good policy. I've seen that policy degrade into "All the enemies you meet have the same cheesy combo that will kill you in one round. You also have the same cheesy combo. Who rolls higher for initiative?"

And when the players lose, the game ends...with bad feelings.

Trust me, it's much easier to simply fix the one problem. We long ago realized this issue and house ruled it to allow the wall to do damage only once per turn.

 

[Flipguarder]

Just to clarify there are a billion things pcs can do but enemies can't. I'd hardly say Blade barrier and command are alone in that regard.

And to clarify my point... Enemies don't need to be able to do anything pcs can. Think the Demigod lvl 30 feature: "ZOMG the Runescribed Dracolich ran out of encounter powers, guess he gets his frightful presence again."
Or think Come and get it, or Orbizards or (like I said) a billion other things, most notably Healers mercy (that would piss a group off. "Oh and this guy over here uses a power and all the dying guys get up.)

 

[Bigwilly]

Cheesy

For clarity, the blade barrier damage applies any time the creature isn't already in the barrier and enters a square that contains the barrier. So if you slide a creature through 6 contiguous squares of barrier, just 3d6+X once. If you slide them out, then back, then out, then back, then out, then back, then 3d6+X three times (plus again when they start their turn). Many groups consider that dirty pool and stick to a single hit of damage per turn so I'd suggest sticking to that unless in a very cutthroat game.

A bit cheesy indeed. And even if you let it work this way, wouldn't the creature get a save every time you tried to slide it into the barrier (hazardous terrain).