Nonei
Explorer
Hello folks,
I have been working much of today trying to put a weight to the various abilities of the core classes so that I can whip up new races etc while maintaining some sort of balance. I compared different things available with other sources - like feats - as well as some of the MM versions of the core races. I'm not completely satisfied with the way things turned out...
I feel like they are in about the right order of strength, but even disregarding the half-orc there is a huge spread. I would love your opinions and critiques on what could/should be adjusted or even how you feel things of the same or different weights compare.
edit: adjusted relative value of stats to +60 str, dex, con/+40 rest instead of +80 str/+40 rest
Summary of total weights:
Half-orc: 30
Gnome: 205
Halfling: 210
Half-elf: 190
Human: 230
Elf: 230
Dwarf: 235
Here is how I weighted things:
Each +1 to a skill: 10 (7.5 (round up) for specialized bonus)
Each +1 to a save: 20 (specialized bonus 15)
Listen and spot I count as worth double, and I counted the gnome's bonus to Craft (alchemy) as specialized.
5 = 1/day Spell like abilities lvl 0 or 1
10 = most misc abilities (like the dwarf/gnome weapon familiarity, stability, favored class:any, +1 to attack vs. goblinoids, etc
20 = low light vision, +1 attack w/ thrown weapons, +4 dodge bonus vs. giants, Dwarf's ability to not slow down in heavy load
40 = Wis, Int, or Cha +2, base speed +10, Darkvision (60'), immunity to sleep effects, gnome's +1 to save DC of illusions, edit:specific bonus feat
60 = choice of feat, Str, Dex, or Con +2
-40 = Stat -2, base speed -10
I did not include the racial languages, because I feel that the extra bonus language balances the human's ability to pick from any bonus language.
I also did not give small size a weight, because there are some bonuses, and once you look at the penalty to strength/bonus to dex separately the rest evens out (feel free to disagree
)
So the core races look like this:
Half-orc
-20 - +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha (+60, -40, -40)
+10 - Orc blood
+40 - DV 60'
=30
Half-Elf
+20 - low light
+40 - +1 listen, +1 spot
+10 - +1 search
+40 - +2 x2 other skills
+10 - favored class:any
+10 - elf blood
+20 - +2 vs enchantment
+40 - immune to sleep effects
=190
Gnome
+0 - +2 con, -2 str (edit:+60, -60)
+20 - low light
+10 - gnome hooked hammer
+30 - +2 save vs illusions
+40 - +1 save DC vs illusions
+10 - +1 attack vs. goblinoids
+20 - +4 dodge bonus vs. giants
+40 - +2 listen
+15 - +2 craft (alchemy)
+20 - 4x spell like ability (lvls 0,1)
=205
Halfling
+0 - -2 Str, +2 Dex (-60, +60)
+40 - +2 listen
+60 - +2 x3 other skills
+20 - +1 attack w/ thrown weapons
+30 - +2 save vs fear
+60 - +1 to each save
=210
Human
+60 = free feat
+160 = 4 free skill points +1/lvl (counted to lvl 5, but also counted double like listen/spot as they can be placed in the most beneficial area so (4+4)*10*2 = 160)
+10 - favored class (any)
=230
Elf
+0 - +2 dex, -2 con (+60, -60)
+40 - immune to sleep effects
+30 - +2 vs enchantment
+20 - low light
+40 - automatic prof with longsword, rapiers, bows
+80 - +2 listen, +2 to spot
+20 - +2 to another skill
=230
Dwarf
+20 - +2 con, -2 cha (+60, -40)
-40 - -10' movement
+20 - Heavy load doesn't slow
+40 - Darkvision 60'
+10 - dwarven weapon familiarity
+10 - Stable (+4 vs. bullrush, trip)
+30 - +2 vs. poisons
+60 - +2 vs spells (I calc it as specialized bonus to each save)
+10 - +1 attack vs. goblinoids
+20 - +4 dodge bonus vs. giants
+45 - +2 specialized bonuses to 3 skills
=235
If you reach here: Thank you for looking through it!!
Edit: I was just looking through these again, and I realized that they would all (excluding half-orc) be around the same 'value' if:
Gnomes got -2 Cha instead of -2 strength
Halflings got +10' movement (for 30' movement total)
Half-elves got +2 bonus skill points at first level (from their mom's side )
I think all those would preserve the flavor of the races, but would they be balanced? Or are they more balanced the original way?
I have been working much of today trying to put a weight to the various abilities of the core classes so that I can whip up new races etc while maintaining some sort of balance. I compared different things available with other sources - like feats - as well as some of the MM versions of the core races. I'm not completely satisfied with the way things turned out...
I feel like they are in about the right order of strength, but even disregarding the half-orc there is a huge spread. I would love your opinions and critiques on what could/should be adjusted or even how you feel things of the same or different weights compare.
edit: adjusted relative value of stats to +60 str, dex, con/+40 rest instead of +80 str/+40 rest
Summary of total weights:
Half-orc: 30
Gnome: 205
Halfling: 210
Half-elf: 190
Human: 230
Elf: 230
Dwarf: 235
Here is how I weighted things:
Each +1 to a skill: 10 (7.5 (round up) for specialized bonus)
Each +1 to a save: 20 (specialized bonus 15)
Listen and spot I count as worth double, and I counted the gnome's bonus to Craft (alchemy) as specialized.
5 = 1/day Spell like abilities lvl 0 or 1
10 = most misc abilities (like the dwarf/gnome weapon familiarity, stability, favored class:any, +1 to attack vs. goblinoids, etc
20 = low light vision, +1 attack w/ thrown weapons, +4 dodge bonus vs. giants, Dwarf's ability to not slow down in heavy load
40 = Wis, Int, or Cha +2, base speed +10, Darkvision (60'), immunity to sleep effects, gnome's +1 to save DC of illusions, edit:specific bonus feat
60 = choice of feat, Str, Dex, or Con +2
-40 = Stat -2, base speed -10
I did not include the racial languages, because I feel that the extra bonus language balances the human's ability to pick from any bonus language.
I also did not give small size a weight, because there are some bonuses, and once you look at the penalty to strength/bonus to dex separately the rest evens out (feel free to disagree
)So the core races look like this:
Half-orc
-20 - +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha (+60, -40, -40)
+10 - Orc blood
+40 - DV 60'
=30
Half-Elf
+20 - low light
+40 - +1 listen, +1 spot
+10 - +1 search
+40 - +2 x2 other skills
+10 - favored class:any
+10 - elf blood
+20 - +2 vs enchantment
+40 - immune to sleep effects
=190
Gnome
+0 - +2 con, -2 str (edit:+60, -60)
+20 - low light
+10 - gnome hooked hammer
+30 - +2 save vs illusions
+40 - +1 save DC vs illusions
+10 - +1 attack vs. goblinoids
+20 - +4 dodge bonus vs. giants
+40 - +2 listen
+15 - +2 craft (alchemy)
+20 - 4x spell like ability (lvls 0,1)
=205
Halfling
+0 - -2 Str, +2 Dex (-60, +60)
+40 - +2 listen
+60 - +2 x3 other skills
+20 - +1 attack w/ thrown weapons
+30 - +2 save vs fear
+60 - +1 to each save
=210
Human
+60 = free feat
+160 = 4 free skill points +1/lvl (counted to lvl 5, but also counted double like listen/spot as they can be placed in the most beneficial area so (4+4)*10*2 = 160)
+10 - favored class (any)
=230
Elf
+0 - +2 dex, -2 con (+60, -60)
+40 - immune to sleep effects
+30 - +2 vs enchantment
+20 - low light
+40 - automatic prof with longsword, rapiers, bows
+80 - +2 listen, +2 to spot
+20 - +2 to another skill
=230
Dwarf
+20 - +2 con, -2 cha (+60, -40)
-40 - -10' movement
+20 - Heavy load doesn't slow
+40 - Darkvision 60'
+10 - dwarven weapon familiarity
+10 - Stable (+4 vs. bullrush, trip)
+30 - +2 vs. poisons
+60 - +2 vs spells (I calc it as specialized bonus to each save)
+10 - +1 attack vs. goblinoids
+20 - +4 dodge bonus vs. giants
+45 - +2 specialized bonuses to 3 skills
=235
If you reach here: Thank you for looking through it!!
Edit: I was just looking through these again, and I realized that they would all (excluding half-orc) be around the same 'value' if:
Gnomes got -2 Cha instead of -2 strength
Halflings got +10' movement (for 30' movement total)
Half-elves got +2 bonus skill points at first level (from their mom's side
)I think all those would preserve the flavor of the races, but would they be balanced? Or are they more balanced the original way?
Last edited:
But that happens to be, such things as automatic weapon proficiencies, which are cultural and upbringing/[social] class-based, surely. They are certainly not biological. But ah well, that's of course not your fault - it's in the core rules. 
Obviously the core rules think +3 to a skill or +2 to two skills ~ a feat though... but I never take those feats.
